nytimes reports a NATO crime as if it were about the weather in tripoli

Qaddafi Is Said to Survive NATO Airstrike That Kills Son
By KAREEM FAHIM and DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi survived an airstrike that killed his youngest son and three grandchildren, a spokesman said Sunday, in a sharp intensification of the NATO campaign against the Libyan leader.

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Even the US readers of the NYTimes are outraged...

1.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
Tim B
Seattle
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
'Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.'
~ Dwight D. Eisenhower

This is a terrible thing, the death of his youngest child and three of his grandchildren. That is not to excuse anything Qaddafi has done. But the killing of innocents is always wrong, regardless of the justification put forth.
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4.
ndk
Denver, CO
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
So, our humanitarian interventions now include assassination of leaders' children.

Forget for a moment how you feel about the war, and imagine yourself as one of China or Russia's leaders. You let the UN resolution through despite your reservations, and now NATO is killing the children of leaders they don't like, a list of people that could or does include you.

Are you more inclined towards diplomacy and negotiation with those cowboys, seeing again how they play? How can this not be disasterous for international cooperation and relations?

Ghastly, foolish blunder.
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2.
Ed
Temple Hills, MD
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
This is the 2nd time in about a week a NATO missile has landed on a Qaddafi home. So maybe now we can drop the pretext that NATO's goal is not aimed at killing Qaddafi.

I know this guy is bad news to many people but there has to be a better way than indiscriminately killing his grandchildren.
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5.
Joe
NY
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
Nice job on protecting those civilians, NATO. So much for those pretexts. There is nothing like killing children in the name of peace.
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7.
change
new york, ny
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
So now NATO is murdering children. This is the low point of our president. I am so ashamed today to be an American.

Murdering children!? For what?
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19.
Pierre Allard
Montreal, Canada
April 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
Years ago your target was his kid daughter. Now, his grandchildren. The behavior of the USA, in Libya and most everywhere else, is repugnant.

Pierre Allard

Retired Canadian Lawyer
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13.
Harrison
Earth
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
When did people begin celebrating the death of children?

This has gotten out of hand.
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3.
Vinod Dave
NY, NY
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
so you will tell us his youngest son killed was 28, but NOT how old were the grand children who were also killed. hail the western civilization...
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8.
J. Mc GOVERN
RHODE iSLAND
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
Grandchildren - NATO must be so proud!
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22.
hb
fairfax, va
April 30th, 2011
8:47 pm
What are we doing killing children? US OUT of Libya!
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21.
Amy Ahlert
Philipse Manor, N.Y.
April 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
This makes me ill. Children should never be killed. When will this madness end?
It is beyond comprehension.
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27.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
Tony Glover
New York
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
Imagine if a nation targeted the house of the child of the president of the U.S. while he was visiting (or hiding) with relatives, because they were at war with our country? What would we say if Amy Carter, or Maureen Reagan, or Jenna Bush, or Malia Obama were killed because some nation wanted to rid of us of one of our American presidents? There would be no justification. Period. This kind of strike is cowardly in a war. If we are going to kill Qaddafi do it in a way that does not take out children whose main "crime" seem to be being related to him. As sympathetic as the world is to ending Qaddafi's regime, these kind of strikes, where innocents lives are taken in the name of helping freedom along, or, even in the name of murdering a despot, is maddeningly counterproductive.
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20.
canada
vancouver
April 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
The story just dismisses the dead children with barely a mention. What were their names? How old were they?
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18.
Chase
NY
April 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
Does this not make leaders of the West fair game- their families too. I wonder what the Times' ethicist might say.
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17.
Now-now
Minneapolis, MN
April 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
I'm no fan of Qaddafi but how could an air strike on his son's house be read as anything but naked aggression and blood lust. While Qaddafi might be a murderer NATO ain't exactly boy scouts. Might makes right and all else is noise and propaganda.
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6.
Kevin G
New York, NY
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
I cant help but think that we are rolling into another endless quagmire that we do not understand and can never win. Senseless and merciless killing on both sides, w/ no end in sight and no ultimate gain for the US.
And Syria is next. Will this ever end, and if so, is it something that the US can effectively gain from? I dont think so.
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28.
Figaro
Marco Island
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
Even the Mafia did not go after women and children. NATO now ranks with the drug cartels of Mexico and street gangs in the good old USA. The NATO command responsible for the attack should be prosecuted as war criminals. They have innocent blood on their hands and they know it. Now they are no different than Qaddafi.
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25.
MCT
New York City
April 30th, 2011
8:49 pm
Grandchildren! Bombing women and children... are we as bad as the fascists? Let's fight like men on the field of battle.
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42.
martin
west side
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
This latest bombing is a war crime. Those who planned and carried out this crime of killing an innocent family must be brought to trial. Americans cannot remain silent.
Enough killing.
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10.
DeathbyInches
Arkansas
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
Don't know what happened, but us and NATO have got real good at killing kids and grandkids. Should Americans be proud of this? These wars are getting me down. I don't need oil......I can walk. I can't get happy any more. We've had nothing but misery for at least 10 years now.

Osama pulled back the curtain and exposed how rotten this country and the world are. We made Qaddafi, I guess it's OK to kill his grandchildren...maybe he'll have great grandchildren we can turn into ooze the minute they're born too. Great fun! I no longer fear death...I'll welcome the relief. America the big bummer....I won't miss ya.
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35.
Paul Moore
Miami, FL
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
I smell a medal for some young "gamer" sitting in front of a video screen somewhere in Colorado. And this has to lock up a second Nobel Peace Prize for President Obama.

I'm so proud of the bravery under fire of the US military. I mean the way they face the dangers of carpel tunnel syndrome and vision problems that come from prolonged computer use to guide those Predator drones to their intended targets. What did they get this time? Not one but three children who shared DNA with Qaddafi.

We can all be proud of being Americans tonight.
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16.
jld
nyc
April 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
Murdering three children..regime change..?
I expect immediate protests by the Times, Code Pink, Moveon.org, HuffPO, etc. Obama a war criminal?
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40.
sunny
ny, ny
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
The picture of the so-called "rebels" cheering sickens me. Why is our money contributing a dime toward this illegal massacre? OUT, now, and while we're at it, out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Let the military sit and watch tv. One thing D. Trump has right--it's crazy that our money is being confiscated to pay for these adventures. I hope Obama takes great pride in the slaughter resulting from "his war." He owns it.
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12.
Steve Gabel
Los Angeles
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
We just killed 3 children?
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38.
Ardner
Tucson, AZ
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
Great! Killing sons and grandchildren. Hooray for the democratic, freedom-loving nations.
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rwf
Santa Fe, NM
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
So we have killed someone's youngest son and three of his grandchildren. Bravo. And what has been gained?
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39.
ed
nyc
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
how is this about saving libyan civilians. and you americans wonder why people fly aeroplanes into your skyscrapers!?
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26.
Willy Marz
Toronto
April 30th, 2011
8:50 pm
With no mandate to kill the leader, we have attempted to do so and killed his children yet again. Our coalition military actions against Lybia is either inveterate baby-killers or perhaps not as competant as we would like them to be. I hope we may claim the latter. May I suggest getting a actual clear mandate under international law to assinate the leader of this country and then doing so without killing the innocent, the young and the defenceless.
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84.
Red Pill
Portland, OR
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
Is Obama going to give back his Nobel 'Peace' Prize now?

Disgusting, reprehensible, unacceptable. Clearly the whole world has gone mad.
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34.
susan w.
central Idaho
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
As most everyone here is saying, the killing of innocent civilians is unconscionable! Proud to be an American? I don't think so! If they were living here I daresay the reaction would not be a shrug. How shameful!
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24.
ewnranger
lexington,va
April 30th, 2011
8:49 pm
what has happened to our country, i hope the retaliation is limited. will the humor at the correspondence dinner be appreciated by the rest of the world on this ugly night
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70.
Madigan229
New York
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
You Mr. President, start a war in our name, handed it over to NATO and turn a blind eye while they kill a 29-year old son of Gaddafi, (a student and a civilian), and three grand kids? Hope you are sleeping well at night Mr. Obama. You are a liar and now a killer as well. As the C-inC, your hands are atained in those kid's blood. I am most disappointed in you and your Secretary of State. We have no business in interfering in the affairs of Libya. Our correspondents and most CIA agents cannot tell a Libyan from a Tunisian, and generalize the news media assessment for public consumption. THIS MUST STOP. Bring all our brave soldiers home before Christmas from Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Tell NATO to buzz off.
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46.
Howard
Winnipeg,Manitoba
April 30th, 2011
9:01 pm
At best the attack was an attempted assignation. The Colonel himself is not a legitimate military object. The heedless collateral damage a war crime. Whosoever ordered this mission should be brought to account.
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60.
Dave
Guatemala
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
I'm heartened to see that so many commenters are rightfully outraged by the killing of children. In the many news articles I've read about this latest atrocity, no journalist deems it necessary to utter more than a single line about the killing of children. If Gaddafi managed to kill three children in the U.S., you'd never hear the end of it. Disgusting behavior, NATO, and the NY Times in your muted complicity.
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105.
lyn5
Oregon
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
Mr. Unearned Nobel Peace Prize just killed another leader's son and three grandchildren. That's great judgment, Barack.
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30.
Dan Green
Delray Beach Florida
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
This is not good news. Killing children serves no purpose. Islamic fundamentalist already understand, how lethal our weapons are, this will not deter them. Sticking our nose into a civil war, has no beginning, and has no end.
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33.
H. Moyer
Central PA
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
What an unfortunate choice he has made? The man is defending his country. We are the aggressors. We're killing children on purpose. Why? Why are we doing this? I will never support the Obama administration again. The rule of law indeed. Obviously this has always been their goal and that Susan Rice has been stoking the fires. I have no idea what is driving this woman but I do know she is totally incompetent and should be replaced. What an embarrassment. When diplomats question her integrity they are questioning our integrity.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/29/diplomat-gaddafi-troops-viag...
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117.
Libya Watcher
California
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
Judy (#31) writes:

"It's not the fault of NATO, this family has put their children in harms way."

This was not some sort of "command and control center," Judy. It was a house, in a residential neighborhood, apparently and predictably filled with at least three generations of family members. It was exactly the sort of place that NATO has assured us over and over it has no intention of striking, even if it knows Qaddafi is there at the time.

In this light, Judy, exactly how did Qaddafi's son put his children in harm's way? Was it his fault, and "not the fault of NATO," because he took NATO at its word?

NATO behavior is getting out of hand. But even more alarming are the callous reactions of many ostensibly civilized Americans.
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123.
JenofNJ
NJ
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
This is ghastly. Incomprehensible. Children? We are killing children? For what?
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120.
decker
WA
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
The United States has reached a low point with these murders.

I am ashamed to be in the United States, and ashamed to be called an American.

The rebels cheered???? What kind of people are they, and what has the United States become when the NYTs cites this horrible news of childrens deaths as though they were sacks of coal?

This country is finished and the end is only a matter of time.
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100.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
Wilt
New York, NY
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
It's disheartening to see there are people who would defend this. The UN only authorized a no-fly zone for the protection of civilians. NATO has stretched this defensive mandate above and beyond. How will this affect future UN votes, on issues like Iran and Korea, when the world sees now that our rhetoric doesn't match our actions?

Republicans or Democrats, it's been the same. Blood and treasure are still being spilled from Afghanistan to Iraq. What do we have to do to vote in a government with the backbone to fix our policies?
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103.
Allen J Palmer
Morgan Hill CA.
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
Since we have now legitimized the killing of heads of state or if you are clumsy at it, the killing of their children and grand children. I assume that it would be fair for them to target and kill Mr. Obam, his wife and Malia and Sasha and the US would have no right to complain. We seem to think that we can torture, main, kill and otherwise hurt others with the full belief that they aren’t permitted to do the same to us. What this country needs is a good taste of its own medicine. Then maybe we would think before we act.

What kind of people are we ????
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69.
DJG
NJ
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
One of the darker days for the military industrial complex. I wonder how many evil teachers could have been employed with the cool $1M that was used to blow up 3 little kids.
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102.
JudyW
Maryland
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
NATO and the US are guilty of a war crime. They need to face justice for murdering children. They lie and tell Gadaffi is not a target -- but when you kill his son and grandchildren in their home it gives lie to the words "Gadaffi is NOT a target" -- he is a target and this proves - OUT OF LIBYA NOW - we don't want this war, Obama, and we don't want to pay for it. You told us this was a humanitarian intervention - what a lie - you merely wanted an excuse to murder a family you don't like. This is disgraceful and you should resign your office now as you have disgraced it by this murderous Nato attack and violation of the UN decreee.
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58.
Lora Wilke
Homer, Alaska
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
How are we ever going to end the madness? Even Obama has been no help. I just gave the IRS an additional $1700....money that I needed for groceries and insurance and gas. They take it and kill kill kill.
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59.
Patrick Sendagala
Kampala - Uganda
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
This is murder. Those responsible should be brought to book.
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121.
raphael
portland,me
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
I thought the UN mandate was to protect civilians in Libya.That mandate was the legal basis for intervention.
Killing Qaddafi's grandchildren is outside that mandate and makes us outlaws,or complicit in the behavior of outlaws.Such hypocrisy and thuggery.SHAME!
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78.
holmrule
nyc
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
Another nail in our own coffin...
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54.
SY
NY
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
This is horrible, horrible, horrible. What Nato did is sinful, immoral,and very dangerous. When are westerners going to learn to mind their own business?
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62.
Dan
California
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Killing children and grandchildren to get a leader to resign is what Mexican drug lords do! And we are doing this because Obama's "rebels" can't win, and he needs to save face pre-election. So - we need to assassinate Quaddafi. But,it seems our $1 million bombs keeping incinerating five year olds, instead. It all reminds me of "A Fish Called Wanda" where Michael Palin is trying to assassinate an old lady but keeps mistakenly killing the lady's dogs. What a nation of malicious clowns we are.
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Alex
Washington State
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
We are witness to the slow and bloody downfall of a megalomaniac, willing to sacrifice his own family for his sociopathic ego. But fall he will. Assad - are you listening?
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114.
Ron M.
Oklahoma
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
We love to hide behind a curtain called NATO, but the core combatant is the USA, not Denmark or Norway; not even France, Italy, the UK or Canada. As Obama smirkly said, "we have unique capabilities our partners do not." It take a unique capability to put a missle through the window of a building from 25,000 feet. I place the deaths of innocent children squarely at the feet of Gates and Obama and am nauseated at the thought of these fiends running our country.
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86.
Philihp
USA
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
WHERE IS OBAMA???!!! Leading from behind? Is that what he's doing while these atrocities are commited? What on earth is wrong with Obama and his foolish team of advisors?
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125.
Todd Stuart
key west,fl
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
If after the first attack Qaddafi kept his family at the compound he clearly had no concern for their safety. I find myself hard pressed to feel sympathy for murdering dictators or their families. By comparasion to WWII when Tokyo was fired bombed night after night military actions today are as humane as possible, but people die. There is a place for a discussion of where and when the US should deploy force. I'm not sure that Libya was a good place to get involved. But the left-wing breast beating I'm reading in these comments about these deaths is absurd.
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118.
CJ
Westchester County, NY
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
I am ashamed of our leaders and NATO...we have no justification to kill Qaddafi or any member of his family. UN resolution 1973 is only for a no-fly zone and "protection of civilians", not the murder of children or anyone. We are the ones who have lost moral authority in the world by our actions. We are meddling in a civil war. It is obvious that we are seeking to kill Qaddafi because we have gotten ourselves boxed into a corner- this little war that we thought would last only a few days has gotten way beyond our control( predictably), and we are trying to get out of it without losing face. Shame on us for this despicable act. How can targeting a "single-story house in a residential neighborhood" be explained in any way as a military target? We are the thugs...this is like bad CIA plots from the 60's. Watching the "rebels" celebrating in Benghazi is disgusting- no sane human being can cheer the killing of children. Hopefully the world will finally stand up to us and insist on a political solution to this crisis, which has been obvious from the beginning will not be solved by bombs. This administration should be ashamed of itself- nice example to the rest of the world of what a beacon our democracy is- hah! And Susan Rice trying to disseminate false information to other diplomats about Qaddafi's troops using Viagra to rape rebel women- nice try, but that was all debunked today by our military and intel officers on the ground over there. May this tragic incident tonight be the turning point that will bring a halt to our involvement in a sovereign nation's internal affairs, which has gone terribly and horribly wrong.
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152.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
Tony Buontempo
Jersey City, New Jersey
May 1st, 2011
7:25 am
This is not the change I voted for.

Even taking into account Qaddafi's crimes, I am hurt and devastated by the deaths of these children. In addition, when I consider witnessing on Al-Jazeera the "rebels" saying the main reason Qaddafi has to go is because he is a Jew, I am starting to feel the US people are being played by the CIA for the interests of the oil companies. Not, as we have been lead to believe, to protect innocent people. These children were innocent and now they are dead in a obvious assassination attempt, which has gone horrible wrong.

Any support I had for the allies and the rebels just died away.
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109.
harry
michigan
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
Where is the outcry from all of your bleeding hearts for the lockerbie victims. This megalomaniac has the blood of everyone on his hands alone. I can not even believe people, so his grandchildren are more important than the thousands he has slaughtered to maintain his oil wealth. In war people die and I think the world of 7 billion is not going to stop spinning. Target this man and everyone associated with him, that is the only way to end this nonsense. Where are your tears for Saddams children?
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107.
Brandon
Ohio
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
Heck of a job, NATO.

How utterly disillusioning.
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101.
Nightwood
MI
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
Years ago our country killed Qaddafi small daughter as she lay sleeping in the compound. Now this. Killing children. All this will accomplish is to feed the terrorists of the world and bring on still more killing and more killing. No doubt the terrorists may direct their hate against schools, any school, any where in the world. We may have opened a Pandora's Box.
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94.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
paulie
boston
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
Libya IS NOT OUR PROBLEM.

Meddling in their civil war is certain to inflame the situation and may even bring more deaths than would have occurred otherwise. Furthermore, we cannot afford to lob $1M missiles at some madman's grandchildren, we need the money here at home. If the world is so very concerned about the humanitarian situation caused by Libya's civil war, let Libya's neighbors in Europe and fellow Arab states that are stable and wealthy (i.e. Saudi Arabia) bomb Libya's children.

Right now Obama has my vote only because the republicans are worse in every measurable way. But I will hold my nose when I vote in '12, with none of the enthusiasm I had in '08.

How many more stupid wars are we going to start in this century? Someone ought to take bets.
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87.
rlk
chappaqua, ny
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
As an American I am completely shamed. This is done in our names and this act has dishonored all of us, much as the Nazis dishonored Germany...all of us are culpable.

We can never regain our innocence. This is a low point, if not our lowest point since our founding.
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47.
genalex
NJ
April 30th, 2011
9:01 pm
I,too, am indignant over the killing of innocent Qaddafi grandchildren. But I am equally indignant over the children killed in the bombardment of the rebellious cities by Qaddafi's military forces.
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90.
Libya Watcher
California
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
NDK (#4) writes:

"So, our humanitarian interventions now include assassination of leaders' children."

No, no, no! That was 1986 when we killed his child. Now we're working on his grandchildren."
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88.
Jacob
Toronto
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
To kill innocent children , that what heroes from NATO knows best.

In the name of protecting civilians??!!!.
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29.
KZ
New York
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
For people who are wringing their hands over Gaddafi's grandchildren, remember that they are the children of Saif. What are the odds they'd be any better than their hateful father and horrific grandfather? In other news today, Gaddafi was giving Viagra to his thugs so they could rape women and children. Nope, sorry. No tears for Gaddafi, Saif, or anyone else in that vicious, thuggish family. The world is well rid of them.
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89.
Ravi
Tokyo
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
Despicable.

Qaddafi is showing more bravery by staying and fighting than the cowardly leaders of Europe for whom life has no value.
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80.
Ken
Chicago
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
Gotta love all the moral outrage here. Yes, decry how despicable it is to kill "innocents" and children by mistake. Shake your moral finger at NATO.

Then Monday morning climb into your gas hog car and drive 15+ miles to work, then make the same trip back to a nice warm home.

This has always been, and will always be, about oil. Oil to fuel your relatively luxurious suburban life. Oil to fuel your vacation travel. So don't wag that shame finger too hard unless you're looking in the mirror at the time.
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79.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
dan o
highland park
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
He pharmaceutically stimulates his troops to use terrorism in the most brutal and demeaning way to women, women who may not die, but will instead face years of shame and pain because Qaddafi wants his troops to gang rape HIS subjects in order to retain his place of dishonor.

I abhor the killing of children, grandchildren, or any innocent party. But the use of rape as a weapon against his own people marks him as the most dirty among a very dirty group. And yes, certainly he has to be a military target. If I was a military target, would I have my wife and children within 1000 miles? Not a chance, unless I was using them as protective shielding (which seems to have worked for him).
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68.
Johndrake07
NYC
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Collateral damage. Courtesy of Barak Obama. And for what? A few million barrels of light sweet crude oil so we can continue to feed the militarist expansion of our bankrupt empire? Ormaybe it was the 140 tons of gold in the Libyan vaults that we want to get our hands on? Maybe it was all a ploy to keep Qaddafi from implementing a break from using the dollar as the reserve currency to make trades with his African partners. Sensible folks would recognize that the destruction of Libya was for the same reasons we went after Saddam - he wanted to break away from the fiscal stranglehold that we exert on the globe by forcing everyone to trade oil in dollars instead of their own currency. Qaddafi effectively was giving the finger to the IMF, the World Bank and the US Fed - and we can't have that, now can we.
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63.
pinkypink
chicago IL
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
How many other grandchilden have been killed? Why are we just NOW being outraged because it was Qaddafi's family? I weep for every mother who has lost a child because of this nonsense.
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48.
tom
pittsburgh
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Nothing to be proud of!
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124.
blue2golf
Evansville, Indiana
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
I read these comments with laughter. How Obama ripped into Bush during the 2008 campaign over Iraq. And you dupes voted for him! Now I read that you'll "hold your nose" and vote for Obama again! Astounding!

You lack the courage of your convictions. Take to the streets. Hang the president in effigy, just like Bush. Let's hear the cries of "war criminal!"

Frankly, your ilk are pathetic and cowardly. You, and Obama, are simply children. Go back home and let the adults back into the White House.
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122.
AdoptedMainer
Portland, Maine
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
No apologies from Nato quoted, and any given would be hypocritical. This makes all the children of all Nato leaders fair game. Are you happy, leaders? Are your children happy about what you have done? Exactly how are you going to explain to them what you did?
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72.
Jesse
Manhattan
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Why are we in Libya again? To stop barbarism?
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37.
Richard
Hudson, NY
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
An outrage. Juxtaposed against the royal wedding no less.
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JohnBoston
Boston
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
The Qaddafi family will be drawing short straws about who will be inviting good old dad over for the next holiday. There are some analogies in the comments about the mafia, but a honorable mafia boss would never hang out with his grand kids if their was a war on with the another mob gang. Qaddafi is just a mega coward who thinks he can hide behind his children. He has to know at this point that there is a "mole" in his organization, and it is only a matter of time till he's gone (aka blown up) Sorry, but I lost a friend and classmate in the Lockerbe bombing.
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66.
martin
west side
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
This fighting and killing must be brought to a stop. Gaddafi had requested negotiations. Now is the time for talk.
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65.
Kate
NY
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
If the target is Qaddafi, as it clearly is, then why are they waiting until he in in a home with small children? Surely there have been other opportunities when children weren't present. I'm no fan of this undeclared war with Qaddafi, nor am I a fan of Qaddafi, himself. The whole thing sickens me, the killing of innocent children especially so. Enough already.
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50.
Y.K.
Boston
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Maybe UN need another resulotion to stop the killing by NATO and US of Libyan people.
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116.
Mike M
Phoenix
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
We know only for sure that an airstrike occurred. There is no idedependent confirmation that anyone was killed in the attack, let along Qaddafi's son and three grandchildren. (There were similar reports many years ago that an adopted daughter was killed in a US attack, but never verified.) According to reports by the BBC, the building was completely destroyed, which calls into question Qaddafi's claim that he had been visiting there.

Of course, civilians are killed during wars, and the Libyan govenrment has been killing many of its own people every day. Evidence of those deaths can be viewed on television and newspapers worldwide.

As the NY Times and other news organizations have widely reported, the Libyan government often makes false claims of civilians casualties to garner sympathy or to inflame the public. Perhaps it is different in this case, but until I see evidence I'm not going to take a report from the Libyan government at face value.
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73.
RKGS1
Atlanta, GA.
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
This is a crime in violation of international law but to be expected from a government that gave us the unjustified invasion of Iraq, murdered over 4,400 American boys there and set off a civil war still going on? Needless to say the name America or lawyer run U.S. government is mud all over the Arab & Islamic world tonight?
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97.
sss
.Brooklyn, NY
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
I wonder if our president will give pause about these senseless killings while yukking it up at the Press dinner. Shame on us for Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya!
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83.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
John
New Jersey
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
I've read a few of the other comment which are very critical of NATO for "killing children". The fact the children have been killed is horrible but keep in mind that Qaddafi has over the decades imprisoned, tortured, killed, raped children of others, parents, wives, husbands, fathers, mothers. If NATO attempts to try to change that type of regime by bombing a home where he might have been then we can't be blind to those facts sitting in our comfortable living rooms in Boston or Los Angeles or Des Moines. Yes NATO could have passed on trying to kill Qaddafi because his grandchildren were there – but I hope those who are saying the wrong decision was made to bomb are willing to go and fight in Libya to save the children who are being orphaned by Qaddafi’s regime.
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81.
Kate
NY
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
@Judy from AZ #31, you wrote: "this family has put their children in harms way. They should exit or die. At least they have a choice."

The children themselves did NOT have a choice. Are you saying they deserved to die?
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74.
Zhukov
Baltimore, MD
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
The appalled reaction to this news speaks more to our delusions about what war means (death, mostly of the innocent and unlucky) than it does to anything NATO is doing. All sides have killed many children in this conflict, and will continue to do so. But most the dead children don't have a press secretary announce their death on TV. This air strike isn't anything new, it is just publicized.

If this incident is changing your opinion about NATO intervention, you need to reflect on your own illusions about what 'intervention' means.
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57.
David Mebane
Morgantown, WV
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
I can't stand the thought of innocent children suffering the consequences of their grandfather's actions. But the reporters tried to put this in perspective in a way that few commenters here seem to have noticed. Qaddafi's are not the only children being harmed in this fight -- far from it. If Qaddafi dies, his killing of untold numbers of other people's children may stop. This seems to me justification for trying to kill him. Whether or not it justifies a strike on his son's house is another matter. But I have little doubt about what the residents of Misurata would think.
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56.
Chan Lee Meng
Malaysia
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
There's a suggestion by Al Jazeera that the news of the deaths could be fabricated. NYT needs to confirm this information. So far there's only one source: A government spokesman.

Gaddafi's pulled this kind of stunt before.

During the Reagan-era airstrikes on Tripoli, Gaddafi claimed he had lost a "daughter". But journos later found that the actual child that had died had nothing to do with Gaddafi, and that he had "adopted" her posthumously!
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51.
Mike C
Wyoming
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Very sad!
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9.
Joe Bedell
Renton, WA
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
The NYT confirmed this information, how?
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91.
Abimbola
US
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
Clearly, NATO and the rest of the Western world is trying to assassinate Ghaddifi who is not a legal military target under international law. However, it should become increasingly obvious to small, weak and developing countries that might is power. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the mandate the protection of civilians? America must be proud of itself.
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76.
cold comfort farm
pa.
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
I don't care for Qaddafi and his machinations, but when did NATO officially declare war on Libya? What NATO is doing is unlawful. And where is our Nobel Peace prize winner right now? Shrinking into the shadows and avoiding any responsibility?
It's the same old same old. Healthcare debaucle? Congress did it. No 2010 budget? Congresses' fault. High gas prices? Must be oil company cabals. Not an intentionally deflated dollar.
Oh! And the deficit? No concrete plan, but it sure feels good kicking an austere plan put forth by the opposition.
Pray tell, what organization awards the Millquetoast or Peanut prize?
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75.
AD
ny,ny
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
People,before you reject our country and vow not to re-elect President Obama, please search "NATO" on the nytimes site. There you will read this:

"Only six of the 28 member countries are participating in the airstrikes, with France and Britain doing half of them and Denmark, Norway, Belgium and Canada the rest."

It seems we initially had a role, but since then, I'm not sure of role the US is playing, but let's wait to hear something from the White House and not jump to conclusions.
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127.
Nick Wright
Halifax, Nova Scotia
May 1st, 2011
2:06 am
I live in Canada, and I am deeply concerned about our involvement in what seems to have become an undeclared war by NATO against the Libyan government. Canadians need to demand some answers from our own government:

Why is Canadian Lt.-Gen. Charles Bouchard, who is in command of NATO's military operations in Libya, ordering an airstrike on the family of a foreign leader?

On what legal grounds is Canada participating in the overthrow of a foreign government through political assassination--which was clearly the intent of this airstrike?

What are the potential legal consequences for NATO, the Canadian general in charge, and the Canadian government for deliberately killing innocent people in an airstrike that can in no way be considered part of the UN-sanctioned mandate to protect Libyan civilians?

At the outset, many warned that the longer we participate in this civil war, the more we will become the instrument of one side in the conflict. That has now come to pass in the worst possible way--the killing of innocents by NATO. Our moral justification for being militarily involved just evaporated.
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113.
phil309
San francisco
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
To reply to people who are accusing NATO of killing Gaddafi's son, what do you have to say about all the 10.000 Libyans dead because of that same man. How many terrorist attacks was he behind? And do you think that his victims did not have families?
By doing so, NATO is only trying to push that crazy man to leave. And I wished they have killed the other Seif who you remembe said they would kill every single rebel and their family once they get into Bengazi.
The Gadaffi family is not a normal one but a group of crazy people that only death would scare.
So if NATO can do the same with 2 of his other sons, maybe he will feel the same feeling , his victims have felt for the last 42 years.
Go NATO. Please and keep some missiles for Assad in Syria. Do not destroy any installation, because those belong to the country. target those people, and their families as they do so well with their opposition members. It's the only language they understand.
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92.
Vinod Dave
NY, NY
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
this really is "the change we can REALLY believe in" !!!
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31.
Judy
AZ
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
It's not the fault of NATO, this family has put their children in harms way. They should exit or die. At least they have a choice.
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95.
jek
Arlington, VA
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
@ Pierre Allard: Canada, too, is part of NATO, and according to the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13092451) is taking part in air strikes in Libya. So why the anti-Americanism?
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82.
K.S.Venkatasubban
Jacksonville
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
So we want democracy in the Arab world even at the expense of the lives of three innocent children and that too when democracy is not functioning well in our own country!
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53.
Kolya
SF Bay Area
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
In war innocents die - folks should have realized that when President Obama announced his intention to intervene. I'd imagine one of our NATO partners made the call on this one. In any case if we do not finish off Qaddafi and those of his sons that are running the show all this innocent blood will have been spilled in vain. If you go against a king you must kill him. There is no other antiseptic morally perfect way of preventing the violence of such a regime.
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41.
Patrice Ayme
High Mountains Somewhere
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
Strike the head of the mass murdering criminal enterprise. That is what was not done in a timely manner with Nazism. It was actually not done at all. Big mistake.

Criminal thugs of the mass murdering type ought to be treated as such, not as worthy of any respect. They are as low as humanity can go, but they can drag thousands, sometimes millions, into death. The earlier they are brought down, the better.
http://patriceayme.wordpress.com/
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Patrick
Long Island NY
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
Barracks Obama was born in America, irrefutably and I never gave it much importance. However, he is ignorant of American historical mistakes and social desires. You Democrats have really turned out to be nothing more than teleprompter reading actors for the real powers of America lurking in the shadows. I really dont care who wins elections and I dont vote because it is all for show, literally. You have no dignity or moral standing. You will be remembered, but not favorably.
First, they killed saddams son then him, now they are attempting assasination again. Oh, the shame and horror my country has become. Woe to the world.
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93.
LC
Brooklyn, NY
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
Is this necessary to kill the grandchildren?
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77.
Patrick
Long Island NY
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
This was done under the auspices of saving the libyan rebels?
Kick the United Nations out of America, they are our lapdogs.
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15.
Goran
Croatia
April 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
I wonder if NATO (and allied countries)'s reaction will be that of a shrug, aggression or groveling. It could go any way.

Regardless, while I definitely don't approve of killing children, the Qadaffi family had this a long time coming. Pity that they didn't get him instead of innocents. All in all, I don't think it should have happened, but what's done is done...
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119.
Dave
Florida
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
It may be a lie. You don't take journalists on a tour of where your son and grandchildren have supposedly died. It may be just that, a PR campaign, in an attempt to make Russia and China go to the U.N. and try to stop the air strikes so that he could go on with his massacres like he did before.

I will only believe it when I read a NATO confirmation of the incident. His compound is huge, and I believe that he has raid shelters in there. What was he doing out in the open during the raid, drinking tea? A speech was being broadcast at the same time on state tv, so it's possible that it never occurred to anyone that he may be in there.

His compound is like a city, it has barracks, it has civilian institutions, it has weapons stored in there. It is his command center.

There's an intact rocket on the ground in that picture. Don't rockets explode when they hit their target?

For a sociopath who brought mercenaries to kill his own people, who hid the bodies of the dead and dug up the rebel graves, who shelled civilian cities just to remain in power, it wouldn't be a surprise if it turns out to be a lie. He is trying to turn public opinion against the rebels, and he's trying to stop all those airplanes from stopping any massacres.

This is why Superman renounced his citizenship. There's a greater good that we should all fight for regardless of our citizenship or convictions. This is a moral war, a war in which our planes and warships are being used for the good of this planet. I don't want to see another Darfur in Libya. Humanity has suffered enough.

Rockets can't tell a civilian for a murderer, and that's their evil, but it's a greater evil letting misguided bombs massacre an entire nation.
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111.
Judyky2
Ky
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
I really wonder what the real aim is for Nato being in Libya.I dont think they went there to really help those rebels are or the rebels helping them by their uprising .I think there is something in that country they want and it sure is not peace.Where will they go next ? Can you say Syria!!!
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71.
JJ
San Diego
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Isn't it just possible that Qaddafi is using his family as a shield? He knows he's bound to be a target by Nato forces. Why would be allow his family members to be in very obvious harm's way?
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52.
Jake
Texas
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
Pierre #19 - who is currently in charge of NATO? Is it the U.S.?
Why would Qadaffi's son keep his own children in the country and not in Munich?

Can anyone confirm the story (I believe in the Christian Science Monitor) about Qadaffi's forces giving his soldiers (and the Chad merecenry forces) viagra and the subsequent rapes of teenage women which have been the result?

At least by 2012, the Qaddafis will be a memory like other aged despots in that region.
Like Latin America in the 80's, big change, with scarred innocents, is coming to the middle east.
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104.
ShowMe
Missouri
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
Keep after Col el-Qaddafi until you get him and his inner circle. It is the only way to minimize civilian casualties. El-Qaddafi is brutally ordering his soldiers to kill and rape little children. It won't end until el-Qaddafi is dead or in custody for war crimes.
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98.
MikeL
Omaha
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
What in the World is wonderful about Killing Children? Have We sunk to the level of a Stalin or any other Brute that We now take great honor in Killing for Killings sake. We are doing exactly the opposite of what the UN Mandate was and that was to protect Innocent Civilians but of Coarse the US and Europe aren't required to follow any Legalities. The real Brutes turn out to be Us. A sorry state of affairs for so called Civilized Nations.
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23.
Jackson Williams
San Francisco CA
April 30th, 2011
8:48 pm
“Qaddafi doesn’t have the power, he doesn’t have the position to leave,” he said of himself. ”With my rifle, I will fight for my country.” How fascinating that he views himself in the third-person singular. I wish Mr. Qaddafi, his former dictatorship and his rifle well, now that NATO has dispatched his youngest son and three of the Colonel Qadaffi's grandchildren. Death will come from the sky as he and his family sleeps - what an unfortunate choice he has made, when Switzerland is so close.
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112.
unconditional1
Santa Fe NM
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
The unblinking eye of karma has started to catch up with the Qaddaffis. The karmic reflection will continue to exact its own sense of justice, meeted out through the expressions of the Patriotic Rebels and NATO. The noose is tightening around the Qaddaffis for all the previous defilements against their fellow Libyans. They may think they are above the rest of the Libyan people, but they are not above or beyond the irrepressible iron-fist of karma.
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139.
PATRICK
NEW YORK
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
Personally, I don't think the United States ought to be involved in the business of assassinating another country's leaders. Otherwise, we'd be in no position to complain should another country go after ours!

Obama is opening a can of worms with this Libya thing, and so far all that we have to show for it is 4.15 per gallon at the pump and a presidential task force looking into the bad behavior of speculators!

So, go ahead....President Obama, make the situation even more combustable! Keep up the good work.
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99.
HC
New York, NY
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
Imposing a no-fly zone to protect civilians. Anyone can see that this was an essential step towards achieving that goal. BTW I got a White House to sell you....
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49.
mayank patel
annapolis md
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
the problem is very simple you have stuborn man that will kill his own family
before he changes his mind this is represenyts a new vicious rude awakening for him
before more of his kin dies .. their is no sympathy in tis matter the man has killed
1000's already including other peoples children ..
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115.
R.
Upstate
April 30th, 2011
9:55 pm
No, 16: "I expect immediate protests by the Times, Code Pink, Moveon.org, HuffPO, etc."

How about protests by the good-hearted and fair-minded American people?

And why are you so politically sarcastic at the killing of children? Why don't you recoil in sorrow and anger like other humans do? Is your wiring crossed? Are you from some other planet where killing doesn't call for grief and distress?
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85.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
pkbormes
Brookline, MA
April 30th, 2011
9:35 pm
The decision for this bombing was made according to the following calculus: would the targeting of Quadaffi be worth it in terms of potential Libyan lives saved, even though innocent lives would be lost? NATO must have believed so.

NATO is not completely to blame. If Quadaffi had cared about the safety of his innocent loved ones, he would have hidden them far away from him.
Obviously, Quaddafi did not care.

Still, this has turned out very badly, and I'm not sure NATO's calculation was the right one in any case.
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11.
Rod
Orlando
April 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
I doubt that he cares!
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126.
S Johnson
London
May 1st, 2011
1:58 am
This seems worse than some of the horrors of Iraq, since we are sure this time that the orders came from the top. NATO got themselves into a war they have no idea how to get out of, and are trying desperately to find a way out by assassinating Gaddafi. It was a craven and cowardly murder. How many more innocents are going to pay with their lives? Regime change isn't legal under international law. Who is the lawless savage, Gaddafi suppressing revolts in his country or the West resorting to murder to push him out? Maybe all those commentators who were lauding this escapade as feminist foreign policy would like to retract their words.
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110.
Maria
NY
April 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
How can we possibly believe this is true? If this is from Qaddifi's camp, it would be remarkable if all of it is true. Is it another scheme so they can do exactly what they are doing - claim NATO is immoral?
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67.
Rs
GA, USA
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
NATO should be so proud of itself; have we forgotten all the dead throughout Libya, on both sides. I assume the reporting of the son's death and grandchildren is something for the Western World to be proud of? You would think mankind would have learned how to sit down and come up with a peace treaty considering all the wars of the past. We haven't learned much have we? With changes comes to all these Middle Eastern nations I wonder if Bush really thought what his invasion of Iraq would backfire, and what the Western World thought how democracy would be so good for these autocratic countries has really turned out to be just the opposite. It appears that radical Islam may be the winner.
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154.
HIGHLIGHT (what's this?)
woodsbeldau
Bloomington, Indiana
May 1st, 2011
9:06 am
It is time to end the killing. The offer was made to negotiate and was countered by a critique of Colonel Qaddafi's speech as rambling. Not one penny more of taxpayer money for this charade. Some courageous soul in Congress should rise to immediately cut off funds for this adventure and demand that our diplomats act like diplomats and insist that the rebels who depend on our arms negotiate to have free and fair elections. Certainly it would be clear that Colonel Qaddafi could not run for office in such an election. But his son, Saif Al Qaddafi, who has stated that could only accept a role in a Libyan government if he were elected in a free and fair election has as much moral right to be a candidate as any rebel in Benghazi whose legitimacy rests on NATO military support.
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142.
Ray, Waltham, MA
The Pragmatic Center
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
Wars are always popular for the first 30 days, but not so much thereafter. You would think Democrats would learn this lesson.

There were lots of Democrats on board for the start of the Iraq war, during the time of shock and awe and rolling across the desert. But when the going got tough and the headlines started to get grim, suddenly the cry went up that they had been "lied to by George Bush." And they beat that drum for years.

The descent of the Libya campaign from a feel-good exercise into a horror show was highly predictable. But it will be interesting to see what line the early supporters of the war will take now that they don't have President Bush as a convenient scapegoat.

Based on the usual tenor of posts to this echo chamber, I'm thinking we'll hear a lot about how Obama has become a tool of the evil corporations that launched this war just to fatten their profits. A more intellectually honest response by these "chicken hawks" would be something along the lines of Emily Latella. "We have to intervene in Libya! For the people! For the children. For the . . . oh, our bombs also kill children? I never knew that! Never mind."
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128.
Libya Watcher
California
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
PinkyPink (#63) writes:

"How many other grandchildren have been killed? Why are we just NOW being outraged because it was Qaddafi's family?"

It's a legitimate question – except that your unstated but plain assumption is questionable: that the continuation of this war, which has killed too many grandchildren already, is Qaddafi's fault rather than the rebels' fault.

Consider what we actually know. We do know the rebels seized arsenals and took over Libyan cities – no doubt about that. Nor is there any doubt that Qaddafi has tried to retake those cities by force – just as the US government or any other government would have done. Few people would fault a government for reacting in that way – unless good reasons existed for the rebels to have done what they did.

That is where we get to the part that we don't know. The rebels claim that Qaddafi's troops machine-gunned civilians who were peacefully protesting, and they insist that more of the same would have occurred if his troops had entered Benghazi. But they've never actually shown any evidence of this, and it's now been over two months. I've watched well over 100 videos now, some of them bearing titles that promise unequivocally to show bloody massacres. But I've yet to actually see this or anything remotely approaching it, in any video. Nor have any massacres been reported in any of the several cities that Qaddafi's troops have retaken. I have, however, seen several videos of rebels hacking dead Libyan soldiers into small pieces, or cutting out their hearts and setting them on fire – all to the roaring approval of large crowds (including children) – but that seems to have been largely ignored outside of YouTube.

Clearly there have been civilian casualties – caused by both sides. That happens in any war. And you're correct that no one's grandchildren deserve to live any less than Qaddafi's grandchildren deserve to live.

Where you're on shaky ground, though, is in your conclusion that the continuation of this war is Qaddafi's fault rather than the rebels' fault. If rebels took over Chicago and, two months later, we still had no evidence that their claimed justification for doing so was valid, would you blame the US government for trying to recapture Chicago?

Or would you blame the continuation of the war on the rebels who had seized Chicago?
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149.
Patrick
Long Island NY
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
Freedom is wonderful, and I cherish my ability to write here, but there is a disadvantage in that freedom has also allowed criminals and unsavory characters to thrive as well. This is clearly one instance in which the criminals of America, in high places, have been allowed to openly murder other nations leaders under the false pretenses of freedom, by satisfying our citizens blood lust. This is clearly a sign of the breakdown of our civilization. People should read the farewell address by George Washington, available on the web, to understand how far removed from our beginnings we are.
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Rudy Haugeneder
Victoria, BC, Canada
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
Diplomacy has ended. To target leaders for death opens a Pandora's box.
One can assume that those targeted for assassination and who are attacked -- or who fear that they might be targeted for death now and/or in the future -- now feel they have the legitimate right to also target and kill the international leaders who target them.
Diplomacy has ended. The UN is dead.
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150.
Pilar Pages
Georgia
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
Is this something to rejoice over?
I pray for their family.
I grieve for this nation's immoral actions.
I am sick over what this country has become.
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55.
poudel milan
kathmandu, Nepal
April 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
who thinks and surely say that this is justice? is killing sb is the solution for any of the problems or sth else ? I have a big question with the HUMAN RIGHT ACTIVISTS why they sew their words against this terrorism ??
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44.
wintersnow
Colorado Springs, CO
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
Col. Muammar el-Qaddaf, I am so saddened at the death of your son and grandchildren and so sorry for your loss. As I am sorry for all the children of your people that have died in this conflict. Please accept my condolences and do not let your grief turn to anger. You must stay on the upward spiral.

The Upward Spiral The Downward Spiral
Numbness/Shock Numbness/Shock
Emptiness/Solitude Emptiness/Isolation
Anxiety/Guilt/Shame Fear/Anxiety/Guilt/Shame
Anger/Irritability Anger/Animosity
Sadness/Grief Resentment/Bitterness
Acceptance Sadness/Despair
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133.
Laird Wilcox
Kansas
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
Well, this was brilliant. We killed a son and three grandchildren. I wonder how many more people will "hate America" as a result of this tragic miscalculation, or how many more "terrorists" this will have created? Almost everybody in Europe and elsewhere (outside of the United States) will cringe when they read this news. Do you ever get the impression that our government has policies that are almost designed to fail, to do the opposite of what is claimed for them?

Quadaffi is a terrible tyrant, but do we imagine this kind of thing is going to bring into power anyone better? His country is ruled more by ancient tribal than modern political considerations, and whoever succeeds him on the "other" side is going to be another dictator who will wipe out his enemies in turn because if he doesn’t, he won’t survive. Expect the jails to be emptied and then refilled almost immediately.

What is most puzzling, however, is how many still have faith in Obama. This man has absolutely betrayed every foreign policy (and many other) campaign promises he has made and the far left is still carrying his water. They will do everything they can to see him reelected in 2012. Can you really trust him about anything? I suspect they are motivated more by a blind hatred of Republicans and what they call "the right" than Obama's accomplishments. His strongest card among his progressive supporters must be his identity, because from their own point of view it sure isn’t anything he’s doing.
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146.
Liberty Lover
NYC
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
"Collateral damage," as unintentional loss of civilian lives is known in military jargon, is a regrettable, but unavoidable reality of war.

No one among the NATO commanders wants to kill children. Even if they completely lacked morals, no commander would want the bad publicity that accompanies noncombatant deaths -- especially of youngsters.

Neither do soldiers, sailors, or airmen sign up for service because they want to kill children. These sort of tragic deaths haunt many a veteran for decades.

The posters who imply that NATO and the service members involved in the attacks are somehow celebrating the death of innocents obviously have never served in the forces they so blithely condemn. If they had, they would realize how deep is the anguish that military members and commanders feel when they know they have been responsible for civilian deaths.

Those who have served in battle also would know that for someone like Qaddafi, who is a marked man if ever there was one, staying in the same home as his noncombatant grandchildren was at best an act of gross irresponsibility. At worst, it was an attempt to use the children as human shields -- not an altogether novel tactic in the Middle East.

For the record, I oppose U.S. participation in this whole affair. But nonetheless, as an American and as a veteran, I find the tone of those who condemn our forces as if they deliberately targeted children to be both gravely insulting and appallingly ignorant.

-LL
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145.
Alex
Buenos Aires
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
I hope someday justice will be done and the responsable of this brought to jail.
What harm have they (the grandchildren) done? This is sheer assassination.
I hope justice be done. Aren't there any tribunals around the world to judge the leaders we have in Italy, France, and mainly US for murder?
What's the word we use for killing a child?
Is there any???
We share some of that word.
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144.
Mort
Manhattan
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
So have we finally gone and done something so transparently awful that even doing it to members of the Qaddafi family will be unpalatable in virtually all places outside of Washington, D.C.? Is killing a dictator's children and grandchildren not sufficiently antithetical to everything America has always stood for, every value we ever believed in on the 4th of July, everything we want our international and domestic images to reflect, that President Obama or someone representing top-level military brass won't have to do something to counteract it? Perhaps something like standing in front of a microphone very soon and apologizing, perhaps blaming it on someone said to work for him or them by dint of a clerical error? We'll see.
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164.
Libya Watcher
California
May 1st, 2011
9:25 am
H. Moyer (#33):

Though it may be bad taste to distract attention from the main story - the killing of Qaddafi's 29-year old son and three grandchildren - I must say that I agree with your comment on Susan Rice, the United States' UN ambassador who claims – without a shred or even an offer of any evidence – that Libyan soldiers have been issued Viagra and given orders to rape Libyan women. It comes as no surprise to read that other diplomats question Ms. Rice's integrity. I am embarrassed by her behavior.
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43.
morris wise
New York, NY
April 30th, 2011
9:00 pm
Dictators all over the world will tremble as they watch the roots of the Gadhafi family being plucked out of the ground and destroyed. The name Gadhafi will only be remembered as a family of fools who defied the forces of free trade.
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184.
whoopster
Bern, Swiss-o-land
May 1st, 2011
9:53 am
Interesting how the oil industry in Libya was nationalized and was not held in private hands. Also interesting to note that Libya does not hold IMF loans.

This is all about the extension of empire and the control of independent oil reserves.
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141.
TJB
England
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
I remember learning that a strike on Bin Laden had been called off by President Clinton because he was in the presence of family not implicit in his actions. I'm really confused of what to make of this news.
Should I be pleased we're going straight for Gaddafi, a man who is committing atrocities indiscriminately against his own people, but unfortunately missed him this time or be horrified that my government is using its resources to kill children? What will the blow-back be for this be? Would we of complained if children were killed when we tried to assissinate Bin-Laden? Just doesn't feel good on my conscience.
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193.
Pax Paradox
Australia
May 1st, 2011
9:53 am
The quest for the Moral Compass used by the "West" in selecting which regimes need "change" and which need "democracy" is a harder task than seeking the Holy Grail.
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173.
Rebecca
Maryland
May 1st, 2011
9:25 am
“WAR is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. . . I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.”

WAR IS A RACKET by Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, USMC
(1881 – 1940), double recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor
http://warisaracket.org/racket.html
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129.
Tom McMahon
Millis Ma.
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
The death of innocent children while disturbing to most is what war equals in the net result. Outraged? Hiroshima, Nagasaki the United States annihilated hundreds of thousands of women and children, don't ever forget it. Firebombing Dresden Germany, forget it? Deep societial problems come into question, how much abuse and killing through terror whould we accept or be a part of. War is no longer what it once was with clearly defined good guys and bad guys, the essence of how people fight wars against a superpower have changed. And we must change, right now most of the conflicts with the exception of Afghanistan are about oil, its resource, pumping it, getting it to market, and insuring economies keep their access to it. Trillions of dollars being wasted to insure access to an energy source that is running out. That is an insane foreign policy. The Untied States should commit two trillion dollars to clean buring bio fuels technologies right away regardless of our debt. For when we succeed and we will if we invest now, we will end up as leaders in the new century of clean energy technologies to power the world forward facilitating growth while decreasing Co2 emissions and carbon pollution and negating the need for nuclear energy.
It can be done, all we need do is summon the will, the money and the determination that we can control our own destiny regardless what Exxon/Mobil and the rest of the giant oil pigs want. WE the People Our government done in conjuction with universities and government money leaving the oil and coal companies behind, because they never took it seriously to begin with. You see free enerprise does not always insure freedom the way you think, there is no freedom now for innovation to spur on clean energy technologies because big oil and coal don't want it to happen. So we fight wars and little children die with their mothers so we can drive big fat SUV's and play in our 1000 Horsepower power boats and your outraged? Your outrage is misplaced.

Thomas McMahon
Millis Ma
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166.
Martin
Brussels, Belgium
May 1st, 2011
9:25 am
This killing is making a farce out of the argument that the objective of NATO's military intervention in Lybia is to protect civilians. In addition the action provides a perfect excuse for extremist to target government offices or even the homes of civil servants and politicians in the western world.
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169.
Baboulas
Katmandu, Nepal
May 1st, 2011
9:25 am
We now have two consecutive presidents competing for the title "Biggest Bully". I used to pride myself for not voting for Bush only to be shamed by voting for Obama. My goodness, when will he stand for something courageous and moral? Time and time again he has betrayed so many of us who previously cheered him on.
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194.
JB
NYC
May 1st, 2011
9:53 am
Isn't indiscriminately killing civilians and children contrary to the Geneva Convention, not to mention basic decency, whoever they may happen to be related to?

Oh right, that's just called "collateral damage" in these Orwellian days of endless wars and government double-speak accepted as reality!
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32.
Dan
NYC
April 30th, 2011
8:59 pm
MCT: Well, why don't you go to Times Square and join the Marines! They are looking for a few good men!
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160.
Leonard
NYC
May 1st, 2011
9:25 am
I hope the USA thinks of its embrace of decapitation attacks on those it considers enemies (think of McChrystal's "man-hunter" assassination squads and Obama's drone attacks all over the Middle East) as in effect endorsing a strategy that could be applied against the USA. We are assuming, of course, that can't happen. But we are setting a very dangerous precedent.
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147.
Brian
NYC
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
I remember reading a long time ago Hemingway's "The Sun Also Rises", which has a part in it about WWI. That war and the military vocabulary used, such as "shells", etc, seemed so remote. Like maybe the word "centurion" when reading about Roman wars.

But here we are almost a century later, and we're still using the same vocabulary. We're so modern in the 21st Century.

Brian in Brooklyn
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136.
sandra chitayat
canada
May 1st, 2011
7:13 am
How many times over have children been killed and old people and young fighters.
And in Syria people are willing to die like cannon fodder on the name of freedom of expression,
freedom of thought, freedom of assembly. Of course it is sad that the vulnerable are usually the first to go.
Do you not recall that he would show no mercy, that he was willing to put land mines in the port of Misurata,
which is still being besieged, so that no ships could enter to supply the wounded? Gadafi at any moment could ask his troops to retreat. Would the rebels chase after them? It's true that they would like to replace the Tripoli government.
And this looks like it could be a turning point.
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162.
expat2MEX
Iraq
May 1st, 2011
9:25 am
Qadaffi may fall, but the terrible damage to any future world peace has now been completed. This is a campaign without so much as a thought. Now, boys and girls, think about this issue which now presents itself.

How can Iran accept a nuclear stand-down when it could lead to this sort of thing? Qadaffi would have never acceded to destroying his nuclear program if he had any clue to what the future would bring because of it. We would never have done this to a nuclear power. DUH! If you think that Iran and Pakistan aren't thinking this right now, think again.

The diplomatic and military rocket scientists in Washington must have gone senile. Sorry, folks, but this is a giant mistake, and we are going to be seeing the consequences from it for years to come.
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182.
Ben
Pittsburgh
May 1st, 2011
9:53 am
Shame. The madness continues. And we (the USA) are part of it.
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175.
Dwight.in.DC
Washington DC
May 1st, 2011
9:25 am
The justification by the Obama administration for creating a "no-fly zone" was to prevent a Libyan "genocide" by Kaddafi. (Sound like "weapons of mass destruction to you?) Further, the U.S. had declared it was not the intention to assassinate Kaddafi, but to allow "regime change." Now that the lies of the Obama administration have been exposed, perhaps we can turn to the "reality on the ground." The U.S. and NATO are fighting this alleged genocide with infanticide. White sulfur, I understand, works wonders on human pests.
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WE CANNOT AFFORD TO FIGHT AGAINST HUMANITY, NOBODY CAN! THE WORLD IS SLIPPING FAST THROUGH OUR OIL-ED FINGERS. SARKOZY, THE OFFICIAL INSTIGATOR OF ALL THIS, IS A SHAME THE FRENCH WILL HOPEFULLY SEND IN EARLY RETIREMENT. CAMERON IS A JUNIOR, AND BERLUSCONI A WORN-OUT RAG. OBAMA IS A NOBEL LAUREATE FOR PEACE, WHICH MAKES SWEDEN INTO THIS FORMER BLOODY MURDERER OF SCANDINAVIA WHO'S CONTENT WITH VOYEURISTIC KIBITZING (SEE ASANGE ALSO!). CAPITALISM IS BANKRUPT AND HAS GONE MAD.

THE MUSLIM PEOPLES ARE ENTITLED TO BETTER LIVES STARTING WITH THE RELATIONS WITH THEIR RULING CLASS. THEY ARE RIGHT TO WANT TO LIVE BEYOND POLITICAL CORRUPTION AND MURDER. HOW CAN THAT BE DONE? IN GENERAL, IT'S BETTER LEFT FOR THEM TO FIGURE IT OUT. THIS IS NOTHING LIKE THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL IN 1989.