oh no, we americans are not socialist!

NYTimes is doing someone's work again and publishing the following piece

To Reach Simple Life of Summer Camp, Lining Up for Private Jets
By CHRISTINE HAUGHNEY
Even as the economy limps along, more of the nation’s wealthier families are cutting out the car ride and chartering planes to fly to summer camps.

We, the never socialist people, comment:


of 4Next
1.
Arkymark
Vienna, VA
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
See, they do need lower taxes.
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8.
Unemployed in the Midwest
Midwest
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
I just woke on day 20 of my first unemployment in 25 years, and as usual am reading all the papers to stay current. This is just a horrifying article, what a punch in the face to the millions of families struggling. Clearly there winners in this bizarre economy, but an article like this could actually be a tipping point.
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3.
Mary
NY
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
After camp is finished, maybe these kids return to their 20,000 dollar backyard playhouses. Somtimes, I think the NYT publishes these types of articles to push our middle and working class buttons.
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11.
TB
New Jersey
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
Please don't raise their taxes. It might create a hint of discomfort in their lives.
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20.
Raymond
BKLYN
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
And this luxury for rich kids, while a third of US children are in households below the official poverty line, a very low standard indeed. But, hey, this is America, USA No.1, the model for all the world to follow. Raising taxes on the rich, to say the Eisenhower era level, would be treason.
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5.
C Murray
Alexandria VA
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
Well, I think that these parents, more than likely, could afford to pay a little more in taxes than the other 96% of American's, contrary to what the Republican's seem to think! These people have way, way too much money, they should humble themselves and have their kids take a Greyhound Bus, like I did in the late 60's! PITTIFUL!!
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12.
bbl229
New Fairfield, Ct
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
I think these people could afford to pay a little more in taxes don't you?
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2.
Madame de Farge
usa
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
Better than using that money to create jobs!
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19.
Rich
Washington
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
Arrrrrgggggggh.......and the right has the temerity to hold America hostage to protect Connecticut hedge fund managers and their Jets?

Let them eat cake, indeed.
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18.
mikelpeters
New Jersey
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
I can only imagine the self of entitlement these teens and families must have arriving in a jet. An absolutely horrible example to set during these times of economic troubles. So much for the quality time with your children during the road trip.
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14.
EW
NY
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
..."brought on two extra people to help handle the traffic last weekend."

See? Trickle-down DOES work!
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16.
terypat
Fall River, MA
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
God forbid we require these parents to depreciate their jets over seven years, because we all know the toll these planes take carting around precious 13 year old cargo to summer camp and no doubt private school in the fall! Don't you realize the major impact that will have on her trust fund? The horrors!
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15.
Scott Contreras-Koterbay
Johnson City, TN
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
Seriously? No, I mean... SERIOUSLY? Rich people bemoan and bedevil the notion of entitlements for people of lower incomes, but even if they are able to afford it this still speaks of an egregious mindset filled with a sense of entitlement. Perish the thought that the children might not see their parents for seven weeks while at camp, or that the parents might have to schedule a complete day to either bringing or picking up their children.
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17.
Mayim
NJ
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
yeah and we should't vote to tax the wealthy cause we wouldn't want their kids to have to fly commercial or horrors, drive or take a train or bus.
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13.
Charles Teague
New York, NY
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
Please don't do stories like this.
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28.
HylasBrook
Canaan, NY
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
The rich simply have too much money. Their current tax rate is lower than it was under Reagan. While they can throw money away on private jets and chartered jets, working Americans struggle each day.

This article has a good point -- President Obama wants to raise some revenues to address the US's deficit. One of the things he's suggested is changing the depreciation on private jets and big yachts from 7 years to 5 years.

Yet this small amount of revenue is too much for the Republicans. They prefer to cut funding for the FAA, for better tornado tracking, and better emergency response systems for natural disasters.

Which is more important to Republicans - letting a 50K a year government employees keep their job or making it easier for the wealthy to afford their private jets?

You decide. And remember that November 6, 2012.
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4.
Ira. B.
New York City
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
I just returned from visiting day weekend in Maine. By car. It only takes 6 hours from New York, and we got to stop for Lobster at the Chauncey Creek Lobster on the way in and pizza at Frank Pepe's on the way back. Sure beats a peanut butter sandwich (or even a lobster) flying private.

Also, talk about leaving a carbon footprint!
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21.
Bill
New York
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
This is just weird. And gross.
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6.
Justin
Portland, Maine
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
Oh good, less traffic for us commoners to deal with on I-95.
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24.
decell
new orleans
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
I know people have the right to make choices with their money, but I am offended to read that campers take private planes. Have their parents heard about the starving children in Somalia? Do they think about the impoverished kids in cities who never get a couple of weeks of fresh air? What values are they teaching their children? It's time for higher taxes on those making above $250,000 a year.
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26.
Cheri
Tucson, AZ
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
Is flying their kids to summer camp on private jets the way the rich create jobs with their extended tax breaks? All those who want to raise the debt ceiling at the expense of the poor, elderly, and middle class ought to be proud.
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25.
Jeanne Elias
Waitsfield, VT
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
Oh Please!!! This is too much! Now tell me that the little Anna is going to work for the Peace Corps some day and help all the unfortunates in some exotic foreign country.
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36.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Disappointed
France
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
I hope kids are taught at these camps to appreciate nature and the damage that senseless consumption does to it.
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32.
FilmMD
New York
July 25th, 2011
8:04 am
This story is actually really depressing.
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7.
Joseph L Cooke
Washington DC
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
My grandson traveled to his summer camp yesterday in a Cessna 182. His parents are not wealthy, but didn't want their 10 year child fondled or sexually molested by TSA thugs.
Recommend Recommended by 15 Readers [ISN'T THERE A SPECIAL CATEGORY FOR THIS COMMENT?]

60.
nana2roaw
albany, ny
July 25th, 2011
8:08 am
During the Depression, the rich were decent enough or perhaps fearful enough to tone down ostentatious displays of wealth. During World War II, their children fought bravely beside the most impoverished of their fellow countryman. Today's upper class now fights modest tax increases that would stabilize our economy so that they can build $250,000 playhouses for their toddlers and fly their tweens in private jets to rustic summer camps. Like Dick Cheney, their priorities do not include military service. It appears that they no longer consider the rest of the citizens of this country their fellow Americans.
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95.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
bh
alexandria, va
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
poster #3--exactly. These stories DO push our working- and middle-class buttons. That's exactly why we should have more of them. This kind of wealth should not be allowed to be invisible. Then people might know just what kind of a farce it is to have a million-dollar bonus when working people are losing their homes.
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69.
sjd4
Durham, NC
July 25th, 2011
8:10 am
I work in a homeless shelter. I see the ravages of poverty on bodies and souls. I see the effects of the increasing gap between the extremely rich and the extremely poor. The increase in the use of private jets for the convenience of the extremely rich who are seeking summer recreational activities highlights the widening gap between the bulging wealth of the rich and the deprivations of the poor. I wonder if the children of the wealthy wouldn't benefit more from a week of service in the inner city, or Appalachia, or a migrant farm camp.
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68.
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orange kayak
charlotte, nc
July 25th, 2011
8:10 am
The sad part is that these kids will grow up so detached from normal teenage expectations, like having to work and commit for things, that their wealthy parents will have to provide for them for the rest of their lives. I have seen all too often that this level of lavish treatment on kids pretty much ruins them for any chance of a normal life with modest expectations. Best chance for them is to marry well and try to keep it rolling!
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46.
Ingrid S
Maine
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
The averaged per capita income in Maine is just short of $25,000. So that $3700 bargain chartered plane ride is nearly two months of the average Mainers pay.
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33.
CrabbyTom In NC
Wilmington NC
July 25th, 2011
8:04 am
Wow, really? If ever there were an argument for letting the tax cuts on the rich expire, this is it. I suppose the jobs the "job creators" are creating is for private pilots. Meanwhile, it costs taxpayers just as much to safely shepherd one of these rich kid buses as it does to guide a commercial jet filled with the suckers paying the bill for these spoiled brats (their parents included in that characterization).
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29.
le
NYC
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
Shameful -- I'm speechless.
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27.
Andy
Jersey Shore
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
These people need a tax cut!
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22.
MK
CT
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
Well as the tax structure turns more in their favor (thanks to GOP)they have more disposable income to indulge in these things. Nevertheless, I am happy for them as they do not have to drive long distances to meet their children. My eight year old decided that instead of going to a summer camp she would rather spend some time with her grandma and whatever money she will make us save will be used to buy her a computer.
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9.
Jenny Emery
North Granby, CT
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
Must be a slow news day, waiting for the debt impasse to break
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7.
Joseph L Cooke
Washington DC
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
My grandson traveled to his summer camp yesterday in a Cessna 182. His parents are not wealthy, but didn't want their 10 year child fondled or sexually molested by TSA thugs.
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49.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
vballboy
Highland NY
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
So wealthier tourists represent an economic engine of sorts. Many regions that have lost thier core businesses have tried to turn to tourism as an economic opportunity.

I just wonder if the number of private planes flying kids to summer camp in the northeast has increased over the years? It feeds into the idea that the wealthy (I assume these are millionaires) could pay a little more in taxes until America emerges from the economic downturn.

These folks certainly made out well over the years from the Bush tax cuts, that favored their large returns compared to working folks who got checks for $400 or the like.

Yes, America can also cut spending by some equal percentage across the board for all programs until a target amount is achieved. Please cut the military budget soon. It is one-third of all tax allocation annually.

But households making $250k or more per year could pay a few more percentage points for, say, three years. Could they not do without the proviate jts for kids to go to camp?
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30.
Arthur Shatz
Bayside, NY
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
What business is it of anyone's if these families can afford to do this. They're not asking anyone else to pay for it, unlike some other elements of our society that always seem to want some one else to pick up the tab.
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41.
American Who Served
Maryland
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
Disgusting, and these greedy people refuse to pay their fair share in taxes! America has indeed changed for the much worse.
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38.
Mr. E
New England
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
Of course wealthy parents send their kids by plane ... spending a significant amount of time with their children would be out of the question!
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35.
michaelannb
springfield, MA
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
Contempt. Anger. Sick to my stomach. They use THEIR money to ruin the air we all have to breathe. And I suppose these summer camps pay some token service to protecting the environment? or maybe not.
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31.
Goldman Sacks
Opinion/Editorial
July 25th, 2011
8:04 am
Most of the patents - the Kids too - must be rock solid Republicans who are fighting to maintain the Bush tax breaks and who won't give on this Debt Ceiling Impasse.........flying you Kids to camp in a private jet and they can't manage an increase in their taxes...........give me a frigging break!
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37.
Marian B
Hackensack
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
If they can afford this, they can afford more taxes.
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10.
ToddLC
Los Gatos, CA
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
Just the type of people Obama wants to tax into submission.
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23.
Jacob handelsman
Houston
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
That's the beauty of capitalism....If you work hard enough to become well-off, you and your family get to enjoy the fruits of your labor.Of course,if you're a socialist like Obama or a Welfare entitlement junkie like most of the Democratic party and their constituemcy, Life is just too unfair for those who are unable or unwilling to succeed. We'll just take from those who have and give it to those who don't.
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66.
RH
Albany, NY
July 25th, 2011
8:09 am
The constant publishing of these articles on the rich, while most Americans suffer in a horrible economy, only reinforces the notion that our elites and the press that waits on them are completely out of touch with the rest of the country. If this article, the recent one last week about the extravagant playhouses for children, and others of their ilk do not inspire us to descend into the streets, I don't know what will. Please NY Times, please save your front page for stories about the reality of 95% of this country - living on an average income of $35,000 per year, like my own family of four.
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62.
Both Ways
nj
July 25th, 2011
8:09 am
I did not read the article. The headline alone was enough. One day, maybe, this country will wake up. The disparity in wealth will come home to roost. If the poor and middle class realized that it is myth that they have any chance of obtaining this kind of wealth, then we may get polices that reduce the disparity. But then again, maybe pigs and not just rich kids will fly!
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50.
The knob
South Acworth, nh
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
I for one am very, very glad this poor child's family won't have to pay more taxes so my family can get the medicare benefits they need.
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40.
Paladin
San Francisco
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
So this is how the wealthy engage in job creation these days: mumsey and daddy sending Biff and Boopsie off to summer camp by private jet. How reassuringly republican...
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34.
The Republicans say no to higher taxes.
New York
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
Who is kidding who. The Republicans refuse to raise taxes while the rich spend foolishly.
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58.
Paul Gebhard
saratoga springs, NY
July 25th, 2011
8:08 am
And taxes don't need to be raised on the richest Americans? ....Give me a break!
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34.
The Republicans say no to higher taxes.
New York
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
Who is kidding who. The Republicans refuse to raise taxes while the rich spend foolishly.
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78.
Rich Carrell
Medford, NJ
July 25th, 2011
8:16 am
Hey, it's America. People can do what they want with their money. The problem lies with how they have accumulated the money. Was it at the expense of other people's jobs? Was it the result of tax breaks or subsides for their company? Maybe they should show this story to FOX and see if they repeat it. Not a chance.
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75.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Paul Kramer
Poconos
July 25th, 2011
8:15 am
Trips for vacations and to camp (vacation without parents) used to be done by car; i.e., without jets or ipods. We kids got a sense of geography, what made states different, heard accents and generally made our own associations The radio played pop rock (Summer in the City), country (Ode to Billy Joe), gospel (Lean On Me), bluegrass (Gentle on My Mind), soul (Just My Imagination), folk (Turn, Turn, Turn) and regional hits. It might be a small world nowadays but such overlooks an authentic world that now lies unnoticed.
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57.
Claire
Chevy Chase MD
July 25th, 2011
8:08 am
Let's make sure we continue giving tax breaks to these folks. They are so deserving and needy.
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72.
nancynancy
United States
July 25th, 2011
8:10 am
Today, the country crumbles around us with the economy, environment, and health and educational systems in tatters. When the rich fly their kids to camp on private jets, we hope they will be haunted by the headless ghost of Marie Antoniette who pranced about her dairy farm oblivious to the starving French people. "Let them eat cake."
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73.
Fca
Atl
July 25th, 2011
8:12 am
In Lawrenceville GA there is a facility that provides services for adult mentally disabled that is struggling to provide necessary services. Where is the magic?
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54.
Sam
New York
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
Well, I'm glad to see that those Bush tax cuts are stimulating the economy.
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39.
Matthew
Washington, DC
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
Usually I laugh when someone proclaims the NYT has a liberal bias outside of the opinion pages. There is, however, no actual news in this featured article other than "the rich suck".
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90.
BLM
Niagara Falls
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
No doubt the ride was deductable.
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88.
Ed
Cleveland
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Private summer camp jets and $50,000 playhouses. These are the people that the Republicans say can't afford to pay more in taxes? The politics of running this country are really screwed up. The Democrats have lost their way. The Republicans are on a crusade to protect the rich. And the Tea Party members are just plain crazy. Where are the voices talking about how those of us who can should be willing to pay a little more to help those who can't, and to see to it that basic piblic services in this great country are fully funded? Stinginess and greed rule the day.
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87.
R.F.
Shelburne Falls, MA
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Last week there was your article about the playhouses of the children of the obscenely rich. Now this! Did it ever occur to these people that they could contribute tens of thousands of dollars to a worthwhile charity and still fly their spoiled kids first class to summer camp? I can only hope that the NY Times' motive behind these two articles is to cast some shame on the uber rich.
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55.
Harry
Madison, WI
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
It's this kind of thing that makes me think that the wealthy in this country could stand to pay higher taxes.
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45.
innermostinn
Vineyard Haven,MA
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
& so many kids cannot even afford camp! This is such a telling photo of what is wrong in our country today.
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94.
Sandy
Pennsylvania
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Please don't make these people suffer by raising their taxes. Just imagine the sacrifices they'd have to make. It would be inhumane.
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91.
Dennis Ferguson
SC
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Why waste a lot of money on infrastructure when you can just take a private jet to anywhere you want to go? This is what it has come to. If gerrymandering is not dealt with, this country is going to become just another banana republic.
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80.
TWVS
Mpls, MN
July 25th, 2011
8:16 am
Vomit. Maybe they could take a detour and do some community service in Afghanistan, Libya or Iraq instead.
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86.
John Cane
Burlington, Vermont
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Just another example of the wide divide between the wealthy few and the rest of America. I wonder how many of these jets provide tax write offs for their owners as we wait to see how the debt crisis is settled?
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71.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
RC
Pompano Beach FL
July 25th, 2011
8:10 am
This article, listed on the front page, with a comment board immediately open, is meant for the sole purpose of generating ire and contempt.

No doubt that it will succeed in doing so.

If someone can afford a private jet... so be it. And I can admit, that whatever contempt and perhaps envy that I may feel, is mostly attributable to sour grapes.
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65.
Mikesbsc
Charleston, SC
July 25th, 2011
8:09 am
This shows that the Republicans are right. If taxes were raised on the wealthy, and corporate jets were taxed, then these families would drive their cars and put a lot of private jet pilots out of work. A clear example of "job crushing" tax increases. And think of the inconvenience for these children!
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61.
Analysse
New York, New York
July 25th, 2011
8:09 am
The NYT seems never to tire of its obsession with the lives of our wealthy class. Ok, perhaps you don't have to be a millionaire to snag a $750 ride on a private jet to the exclusive summer camp where your kids are ostensibly learning how to 'slum it'. But you do have to be wealthier than any working or middle class families I know.

Yet even as so many American taxpayers continue to face financial distress; and, on a week when we've just witnessed a terrible terrorist attack in Norway, when our own government is being held hostage to an extremist political agenda, this is what you choose to put front and center online? Shame on you, NYT, what an insult to your readership and your profession.

Of course in the interests of fair and balanced reporting, you really are obligated to now run a story about how families live who can't even afford to send their kids to an average summer camp. But what, go slumming into the middle class? You must be gasping at the thought.
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44.
Roland Berger
St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
Why using a car when one can fly to anywhere in the world? Driving cars is (was?) for middle class.
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43.
Ned Waller
Atlanta
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
After all has been said about the debt limit crisis (and little has been done) this articles makes it clear that the Republicans' intransigence to eliminating tax subsidies for private jets is really about about protecting family values and children. In these difficult economic times we should be grateful that the US government helps subsidize wealthy families' summer travels.
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42.
KS
NY, NY
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
America, land of opportunity...

My guess for coming summer camp trends:

- Transport by imperial litter, so kids can imagine they're Cleopatra.

- Now that space flight has been privatized, summer camp in orbit. Not only can the kids look down on everyone else, but they'll burn a few oil fields worth of rocket fuel, and make their parents even richer!
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115.
rqtguru
Silver Spring, MD
July 25th, 2011
8:35 am
Lets give them a tax break for using their private jet to get the kids to camp. We can get the money from cutting VA, and Medicare! Lets do it the GOP (Gold Over People) way!
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NO, WE ARE NOT SOCIALIST, JUST THINK SO WHEN THE CHICKENS COME HOME TO ROOST.

Media self-control, Cenk Uygur

Yeah right, the elites are not conspiring to keep us dumb with mass media...

Bush left us the Piñata of our times

OSLO — The Norwegian police on Saturday charged a 32-year-old man, identified by the Norwegian media as Anders Behring Breivik, over the bombing of a government center and a shooting attack on a nearby island that together left at least 91 people dead.

Within minutes from the attack, comments at the NYTimes came into the hundreds. Take a look and see if you can identify the Piñata of our times.



S
Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
11:16 am
We felt shockwaves from the blast even from the outskirts of downtown. We are really shaken and glued to the news, trying to find out more.
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2.
Dave
Pa
July 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
I didn't know there was anybody that angry in Norway.
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3.
JI
Lexington, KY
July 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
It was done by terrorist, definitely. More efforts are needed to win over terrorism even if Bin Laden was killed.
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4.
KJSDem
Virginia
July 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
More crazy people ruining life for the rest of us. Hopefully there were few injuries and no deaths and they catch the animals responsible for this.
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5.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Justin
queens
July 22nd, 2011
11:19 am
Islamic fundamentalism is not an American issue, its a global humanitarian crisis.
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6.
david
tennessee
July 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
It appears that even the less contentious nations are not immune to the scourge that extremism has become in this poor world of ours.
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7.
Jeff
L.A.
July 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
The biggest danger in the wider blast area is damage to eyesight from flying glass. I hope this is not a repeat of the American embassy blast in Kenya where so many innocents lost their vision.
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8.
John Bergene
Sandefjord-Norway
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
Norway lives in a bubble with their own thoughts. Like when we were put on the terror list for possible attacks. The goverment didn't care. Each year the Police & military sections get less, and less money. Figured we never need them. This was just a time question before it would happend >.> im doing a golfclap for my own country. The blow up was sad, and its sad that people got hurt. But the golfclap is for the goverment and their way of thinking.
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9.
Allan Fineberg
Fair Lawn, NJ
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
A dastardly act. Norway is a beautiful, peace-loving country with a civilized people. This is disgusting.
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10.
uofcenglish
wilmette
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
Let me guess? We all know who is behind this-- Muslim extremists. They have benefitted from the liberal policies of countries like Norway, but now that some stops are being put in place their is a strong reaction. The forces of barbarism are at the gate, who is truly at watch. The politicians and bankers are too buy trying to shore up their crumbling economic systems.
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11.
geoff
SF bay area California
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
The Aftenposten, Oslo's main newspaper, says the explosion seems to have been directed at the Oil and Energy Ministry, OED.
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12.
Dr. R.D.B. Laime
Albuquerque, NM
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
Writer Goodman needs to tell us 3:30 am or pm. If the USA would only go along with the rest of the world and use GMT(Zulu time)it would be grand. 3:30 a.m.---not too much of a problem(oh a problem), yet 1530(3:30 p.m.) would be challenging. Small note? Heck no...we complain about a lot of things about the world, and we (the USA)are the backward bunch(oh yes GMT/zulu is viewed as military time). And we still call Native Americans Indians because Columbus made a goof. Cheers.
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13.
DaveD
Wisconsin
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 am
Likely the first blowback from the Bin Laden murder.
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14.
Tim Kane
Mesa, Arizona
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 am
Looks like the shock doctrine has come to the most successful socialist state in the world. Norway, expect all of your state institutions to be systematically destroyed by opportunist, and for you social welfare to be assaulted by the same. You are far too successful, have far too much oil and far to small to be allowed to continue in your current capacity.

I weep for you.
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15.
WR
Seattle
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 am
For a country like Norway, this is earthshaking. Would be for anyone, but we should extend every possible courtesy and outreach to the government and the people of Norway at this time.
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16.
rlk
chappaqua, ny
July 22nd, 2011
11:35 am
Of course the terrorists would strike the least aggressive country.

They're just a bunch of coward murderers who strike at innocent civilians.
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17.
Kara
NJ
July 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
Lots of good thoughts and prayers to Norway.
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18.
Mike Strike
Boston
July 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
What an outrage.

Norway has always been very receptive to refugees and dispossessed peoples from other regions of the world and contributes massively in aid to countries around the world in need.

Norway should not be deterred from continuing its exemplary humanitarian role in the world by this insanity.
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19.
XFXDOOM2
Stockholm, Sweden
July 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
I'm very interested in who will claim responsibility for this apparent terrorist attack.

Gaddafi? The Taliban? Al-Qaeda?

Let's follow this story very closely.
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20.
MMR
Chicago
July 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
Sending good thoughts to our friends in Oslo and to all Oslo residents.
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21.
ACW
New Jersey
July 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
Do we know it was a bomb and not, e.g., a gas leak? Has anyone claimed responsibility for it? I don't see anything in the article as of this iteration; I'm sure an update is coming. #3 and #4, don't jump to conclusions. One of the cartoonists who got into trouble for drawing a cartoon lampooning Mohammed was Swedish, but Sweden isn't Norway, so if this is a terrorist act, it's mis-aimed. Meanwhile, whatever the cause, my condolences to #1 and his countrymen for their anxiety, whatever the cause.
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22.
Richard Modigliani
Marin County, Ca
July 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
It is probably some radical Norwegian Lutheran sect, no wait, I bet it is some atheist comic book fans. Whoever it really is, I bet we collectively ignore their religious background out of political correctness. And the longer we refuse to acknowledge that 99% of these bombings originate out of one particular religion, the larger the European right will grow as a backlash to these types of terrorist attacks.
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23.
tubaornot
oslo
July 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
It is now confirmed it is a bomb explotion, and at least 2 are confirmed dead, and 8 are injured, but unkonfirmed news is that several more dead are spottet and several more injured are spottet to.
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24.
Harveydad
Melbourne Florida
July 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
If Norway were like the United States, they would invade some country and kill/destroy the leader of that country as some kind of retaliation. I hope the persons or country responsible are not thought to have WMDs. I also hope Norway does not ask Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld for advice.
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25.
rico
brooklyn
July 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
Seems like it could be environmental terrorism.
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Padman
Boston
July 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
Even though it is too early to say who is responsible for this attack it is most probably al-Qaeda. Officials in Norway on Thursday, July 8, said they have arrested three men with ties to al-Qaeda suspected of "preparing terror activities". Al-qaeda is active even in a peaceful country like Norway. No place is immune.
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28.
danstrayer
bonners ferry, ID
July 22nd, 2011
11:40 am
Referring to # 10 above: That's right, we do know. Just like Sweden, and England, and a host of other western nations, we know what happens when these people are allowed in, but apparently we all have to learn it the hard way. Chalk up another victory for Political Correctness.
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29.
Norwegian girl.
Oslo, Norway.
July 22nd, 2011
11:40 am
There are unfortunately several dead people, and many who are hurt. :( A terrible day for Norway.

The police had confirmed that the explosion is caused by a bomb, and have arrested 3 persons, and have surrounded a car at Gardermoen airport as we speak. :(
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30.
Fiona
NY
July 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
In the lah-lah world people are admonished against "profiling" and "stereotyping". In the real world every explosion is immediately suspected to be the work of Islamist terrorists. And almost every time it turns out to be true. Norway is in the forefront of supporting Palestinians and pushing for boycotts against Israel, thinking that it would buy her safety. Wake up and smell the putrid scent of burning buildings, Oslo! Appeasement of terrorists never works and only makes them bolder.
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31.
decker
WA
July 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
The time to do as Denmark has done hass come, their immigration policies are finally strict, and the open-doors of Sweden and Norway that have brought them both nothing but trouble must be ended.

Close the doors.

Only those of actual Nordic and Germanic heritage belong as citizens in Scandinavia.
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32.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
BR
Times Square
July 22nd, 2011
11:54 am
The Nordic sensibility seems to be that issues like free speech and religious fundamentalism is not a conflict, but something that can be downplayed and will fade away on its own. Sorry: it's not fading away.

Religious fundamentalism needs to be confronted directly, it does not back down. It in fact feeds off of ambivalent or conciliatory attitudes: "see? they are weak, they will bend to our will."

Make no mistake, the defining conflict of the 21st Century is between religious fundamentalism and societies that respect and cherish civil liberties.

Notice I didn't say the conflict was between Islam and the West.

To frame the conflict as between Islam and the West is a degenerate trollish way to understand the conflict we are facing in today's world. As if the Muslim world can't appreciate civil liberties. As if the West doesn't have its own homegrown problems with religious fundamentalism.

Civil liberties or religious fundamentalism. Choose your side. Because there is no ability to remain neutral in this conflict, as this bombing has just shown.
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33.
Sven
SKI near Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
11:54 am
Now, two hours after the explosion 2 peoples are confirmed dead and the police confirms it is a bomb attack.
Windows were blown out at least half a mile away from the place (ten street blocks New York style).
A police press conference has been announced for now, but has not yet started.
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34.
Mauren
Holden, MA
July 22nd, 2011
11:55 am
What a tragedy! Norway is not a nation one normally associates with such acts.

It's truly time for us to reevaluate global policies of large states and what we do to stop and punish such savagery.

For instance, must US really work with tainted nations such Pakistan and Saudi Arabia? Should China continue to send nuclear reactors and fissile material to Pakistan? What is the role of Western powers in Afghanistan?
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35.
K.A. Berg
Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
11:55 am
"Each year the Police & military sections get less, and less money. "
from Norway central bureu of statistics, in million NOK:
Money to the police
2005-2010
8 897 9 502 10 218 10 985 11 766 12 766
Stop your golf clapping
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36.
Katie
Portland, Oregon
July 22nd, 2011
11:56 am
I wish I could take a peek into the Muslim extremist's mind. What are they hoping to accomplish? Do they think that the death of innocent people will make the rest of us embrace Muhammad? Do they think that explosions will encourage people to follow Islam's archaic and barbaric rules? Do they think that the rest of the world will fall over and bow to their religion because of explosions? It will never happen.

What is pathetic is that Norway was probably targeted because they printed cartoons of Muhammad. Do the Muslim extremists not get that it is pathetic that they were angry about a cartoon in the first place? Do they not get that this type of violence only sets them back another century in the eyes of the world and hardens people's hearts against innocent Muslims and their beliefs? Can't they see that their countries are tragically unsuccessful and uneducated and the way they are living now will only keep them stuck in the pre-middle ages?

Muslim extremists do not think like normal people. We can never, ever forget that. And we should never change our lives, our beliefs, in order to cater to these monsters in any way. "Politically Correct" behavior that does not acknowledge the truth of this situation, that does not acknowledge that this fundamentalist belief system is not compatible with freedom and liberty, will only harm us in the end.

I'm sorry, Norway. I'm sorry for your country and for your people. We are all wishing you the best and standing beside you. May justice be swift and sure and fair.
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37.
Joanne600
NYC
July 22nd, 2011
11:56 am
The government of Norway has had its collective head in the sand regarding its immigration policy. I weep for the good people of Norway, their government has let them down.
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38.
Laura
Madison, WI
July 22nd, 2011
11:57 am
This is terrible news, and my thoughts go out to all of the injured and their families.

I am confused by the information presented in this article, however. The report cites no leads or suspects. Why have the writer and by extension the Times chosen to include information about Muslim extremist violence without any confirmed connections to the present situation? It doesn't serve your readers well to provide context when we don't yet know if that context is relevant.
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39.
Kim L.
New York City
July 22nd, 2011
11:57 am
O God, I am so disgusted and tired of all the violence in the world. Somehow, the very idea of violence has to change; many people actually are attracted to violence: witness the popularity of violent movies, violent video games, the "glamour" of fighting men. We have to start seeing all this as pathetic, idiotic. Not entertaining, not exciting, just plain stupid. Young people all over the world, especially right now in the extremist lands, have to wake up and start seeing the path of violence as a ridiculous one, not a brave and heroic one. Men and women everywhere must BOYCOTT the use of force, refuse to take up arms, bombs, guns.
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40.
Domingo Tavella
San Francisco
July 22nd, 2011
11:58 am
Islamic fundamentalism was brought about by decades of American and British meddling in the Middle East. Unfortunately, Islamic extremists can't tell the difference between nation in the West, just as GW Bush could not tell the difference between Afghanistan and Iraq, Reagan could not tell the difference between countries in Latin America, American voters can't tell the difference between Indus and Muslims, or just as Sarah Palin does not know that there are countries in Africa. Ignorance and its consequences, it turns out, are not the exclusive privilege of Islamic terrorists.

By believing that terrorism is a universal issue, the civilized nations of northern Europe are making it a universal issue. Norway does not have military bases in Saudi Arabia, does not need Middle Eastern oil, and has no reason to send troops to Afghanistan. The onus for combating Islamic terrorism should have fallen on the UK and the US exclusively, since they are the ones who originated it and the ones who perpetuate it - no amount of terrorism will persuade the US to dismantle its bases in Saudi Arabia, nor the UK and the US to stop meddling in the Middle East.
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41.
Yabaulee
NYC
July 22nd, 2011
11:59 am
@ poster # 5 & 10
You must have some magical crystal ball that tells you who did what& where!!!
Too easy to jump on the ugly Islamophobia bandwagon.
What if turn out some local sicko with deep psychological problems?
Or a foreign agency hit (the mossad) to stir up new anti Muslim bigotry?
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42.
Mr. Helpmann
Brooklyn, NY
July 22nd, 2011
12:00 pm
Bad sportsmanship. A ruthless minority of people seems to have forgotten certain good old-fashioned virtues. They just can’t stand seeing the other fellow win. If these people would just play the game, they’d get a lot more out of life.
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43.
IA
Norway
July 22nd, 2011
12:00 pm
I am proud of my country, our way of life and our society. I don't see how the hard ways has made any type of progress what so ever!

#8 Put a golfsock in it!
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44.
Don
NY
July 22nd, 2011
12:00 pm
This is the kind of horror Sri Lanka went through for 30 years and finally eradicated the menace in 2009. Recently it was learned that Norway secretly funded the Tiger terrorist group while brokering peace with the Sri Lankan government. And now Norway with the EU is pressing the UN to investigate war crimes against the Sri Lankan Government!
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45.
PL
Sweden
July 22nd, 2011
12:01 pm
@ Dr. R.D.B. Laime:
"Indian" is a European word. It was applied from the beginning to boith the East and the West Indies (both European concepts). Columbus's goof has nothing to do with it. If you have to distinguish, what's wrong with "red Indian"? (something bad about red but not black or white? c'mon). As for "native American", what country are the rest of us who were born in America natives of? Not to mention that "America" comes from the name of a dead white male.
As for "military/Zulu" time, why not go further: life would be more rational if we all just had numbers instead of names. Easier for our masters to keep track of us that way.
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46.
WillT26
Durham, NC
July 22nd, 2011
12:01 pm
Perhaps indiscriminately invading countries is not the answer to the world's terrorism issues.
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47.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Henrik Eriksson
Uppsala, Sweden
July 22nd, 2011
12:01 pm
This is not anything you'd ever expect. Scandinavia has never experienced such a terrorist attack in modern times. According to Norwegian media there are at least 2 people who are confirmed dead. How horrible, I feel chocked, sad and angry at the same time.
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48.
Lars Welle
Norway
July 22nd, 2011
12:02 pm
The explosion in government offices, is caused by a bomb, police said.
It is speculated that there may be a car bomb, but can not be confirmed yet.
Nine people are still injured and two killed.
The bomb has caused major material damage in several quarters.

Norway's prime minister was not in office when the bomb went off, and is now in safety.
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49.
Avinash
College Station
July 22nd, 2011
12:02 pm
This is sad and sickening. What does anyone get out of killing random innocent people?

Stand strong Norway. We are all with you!
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50.
WillT26
Durham, NC
July 22nd, 2011
12:02 pm
I feel very bad for Norway and send my best wishes to all of its people and hope that the number of dead/injured does not increase.

I am also happy that Norway, unlike a different country, will not invade two nations and kill millions of innocent civilians in an orgy of violence and revenge.
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West Sider
NYC
July 22nd, 2011
12:56 pm
And 3 days later a Government building blows up in Norway?

Norway backs Palestinian path to UN statehood vote
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND REUTERS

18/07/2011
Norwegian FM says it is "perfectly legitimate" for Palestinians to take case to UN; Syria officially recognizes Palestinian state, SANA reports.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=229906
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57.
vijay
NJ, USA
July 22nd, 2011
12:58 pm
My God, I hope it's not some crazed Buddhist terrorist again!
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58.
sp
Sacramento CA
July 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
People need to understand an Islamic crusade is underway, why are these people tolerated at all. The resounding silence from the Muslim community says more than enough.
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59.
Trumpit
L.A.
July 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
I believe it is God's wrath toward people who persist in hunting intelligent whales in their ocean habitat. The Japanese were hit with an earthquake and tsunami and now the Norwegians are getting a taste of their own medicine. STOP all hunting of whales now! Don't mess with Mother Nature or Mother Superior! Humans must stop playing God with the environment and her creatures. We are shooting ourselves in our collective foot for sure.

Bob Barker is a legend and a hero in the global efforts to stop whaling in the 21st century. He put up millions of dollars of his own money to stop the senseless slaughter of whales. God bless Bob Barker!
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60.
feelin' adrift
Canada
July 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
Thoughts and prayers to the people of Norway who are suffering.

Until more pressure is brought to bear on Israel for its oppressive, imperialist policies, we will unfortunately experience more acts of violence such as what the Norwegian people experienced today.
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61.
RJ MacReady
sf
July 22nd, 2011
1:00 pm
Norway is "such a neutral country"? I guess that the Norwegian educational system is as deficient as ours when it comes to teaching history and geography. After 5 years of Nazi occupation in WW2, Norway became a founding member of NATO in 1949.
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62.
Ken
Norway
July 22nd, 2011
1:01 pm
There's been two confirmed deaths so far, with several injuries.
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63.
CJ Laity
Chicago
July 22nd, 2011
1:01 pm
A few weeks ago Ghaddafi promised to attack Europee in retalitation to what's being done to his country and Hilary Clinton shrugged and told him to step down instead of making threats. What makes us think we can jump into another country's civil war and start arming rebels and bombing the government and that there aren't going to be any consequences.
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64.
andre
up in the hills of Mount Tamalpais
July 22nd, 2011
1:01 pm
I live in California, and on days like this I'm glad our unskilled workers come from the Pacific Rim and South America. More importantly, I'm glad that those workers don't arrive here mentally at odds with our culture.
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65.
Pipi
Sweden
July 22nd, 2011
1:02 pm
Decker 31, I presume you are of native American heritage, right?

I understand from a friend in Norway that the media there is largely reporting it's a terrorist act and that maybe as many as three explosions were involved but of course none of these accounts has been conclusively corroborated.
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66.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Okyoman
Norway
July 22nd, 2011
1:03 pm
Let's not rush to conclusions, and above all let's not allow this to paralyze us with fear. This is horrendous, and that it's happening here is quite surreal. For better or for worse things like these can, apparently, happen just about anywhere. This is something very unfamiliar to us, but we are not immune. But brutal force only breeds more brutal force, and this will never get us anywhere. We're shocked, but let us not be overwhelmed. A society infused with fear is not a way to go.
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67.
S.B
Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
1:03 pm
Several buildings in Oslo Cetre is now being evacuated, reports of shooting on an island(Utøya) in the oslo-fjord.
Still can´t believe this has happend...
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68.
Adam
Tallahassee
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
"Norway is such a neutral country?" I think someone needs to contact the national PR department.
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69.
califpoppy
california
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
so apparently,no country is safe from terrorists.
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70.
THOP
SA
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
Lot's of speculation at this point, with no evidence. Islamic terrorists? Environmental terrorists (this was the oil HQ)? Some domestic issue in Norway (think Timothy McVeigh and OK)? Who knows? "Round up the usual suspects!"

It will become clear, and then we end the speculation. Until then....
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71.
K.A. Berg
Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
From the police press conference:
15 hurt, 2 confirnmed dead,so far, buildings are being secured.
No one is arrested so far.
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72.
BC
Boca Raton, FL
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
Seems as if the Norway government's growing anti-Israel rhetoric and Islamist appeasement hasn't protected the country from terror.
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73.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Paul
California
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
There is a real problem here. One of the world's major cultures has failed, and a billion people have been left behind in the advances of the last several centuries. They have discarded the human potential of half of their people(women) and have lived in states controlled by a reactionary clergy that has kept them in ignorance. Now modern communications have made them see where the rest of the world has gone. They are angry. They are ill equipped to join the modern age and so they lash out and build bombs. I see no easy resolution. It will take generations before they can be competitive in this world. These poor hopeless disadvantaged people, and their anger, will be with us for a long time.
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74.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Emmanuel
New York, NY, USA
July 22nd, 2011
1:22 pm
"Norway is such a countral country...." says a passerby in Oslo. That was true before the Norwegian government caved in to the pressures of US and Nato allies and sent troops and equipments in Afghanistan. Lately Norway has been involved in Nato operations against Al-Qaddafi's libyan regular army. Can the term "neutral" be applied to Norway today? People outside of Europe and North America don't think so. They have seen Danemark and Norway abandon their traditional stance in world affairs and embrace EU and US policies of meddling interventionism in the developing world.

Today in the eyes of many observers only Sweden, Finland and Switzerland deserve to be called "neutral". But the Swedes might lose that definition if they are succesdul on the global arms markets -they are currently trying to sell fighter jets, Saab Gripen, in many parts of the world-. Cowardly terrorists attacks are always wrong and must be condemned. But practionners of foreign policy know how actions taken by nations internationaly sometimes bring retribution by aggrieved parties. We are afraid the Scandinavian governments have been a little naive if they thought there would be no consequences to their involvement in what we call operations to enforce the keeping of "international peace and security", be it under the banner of Nato or any other Western coalition...
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75.
Weird Harold
NM
July 22nd, 2011
1:23 pm
_______________________________
638.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Bejay
Williamsburg VA
July 23rd, 2011
1:48 am
Now it has been revealed that this was the act of a Norwegian Timothy McVeigh, and not a Muslim.

The enemy is not Islam, or Christianity, or Conservatism, or Liberalism, or Communism, or Libertarianism.

It is Extremism. It is "by any means necessary". It is "never compromise". It is "our way, or death".

Unfortunately, too many people hear "MUSLIM extremist" when they should hear "Muslim EXTREMIST".

Extremism in Defense of Liberty is no Vice? Nothing could be further from the truth. That's no different than saying terrorism in defense of liberty is no vice. Or rape, or murder, or torture in defense of liberty is no vice. Extremists always think they are acting in defense of some noble cause, like liberty.

The dictum ought to be "Extremism even in defense of liberty is still a vice."
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565.
Sondre I.
Stavanger, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
10:38 pm
In the moment of writing, there is no less than 551 comments on this article. I have not read all of them, but I've seen some few trying to push in the direction I will attempt to push myself, and a whole lot going the other way.

It's about the mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik and his connection to Islamic terror organizations. You see, he has absolutely no connection to any Islamic group at all, in fact, he is rumored to be a member of a christian group in Norway. Anders B. Breivik is a nationalist, more of a tea-party kind of guy, who would oppose Islamic terror rather than support it. For a long period of time he has expressed criticism against the media for not criticize Islam enough, and he has made comments that are very much indeed against multiculturalism. He has written lot's of pro-nationalist comments at Document.no and other sites alike.

So to sum up, he was born in Norway, he became a right-extremist. He does in no way give any impressions of being pro-Islamic, and gives more the impression of being a tea-party kind of guy, Norwegian version.

I cannot stress this enough, anyone who still thinks this is the work of an extremist Islamic group, must, with all respect, get rid of the tin-foil hat and have a look at reality.
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RJay
Westwood, CA
July 23rd, 2011
2:09 am
Having scanned most of the comments here, I'm sickened by reading so many chest-beating displays of hatred, xenophobia, ignorance and vengefulness. It's all part of a very destructive and irrational cycle that feeds on itself. And in the end, who pulled the trigger and set the detonator(s) in Norway? A right-wing Christian "Nordic" caucasian, who self-identified as "conservative." The same kind of person who, in America, would brandish firearms outside a presidential event, or who would join a border militia to deliver "justice," or who would crucify a gay person on a Wyoming fence, or who would even shoot an Arizona Democratic senator. How cowardly, and how utterly un-American.
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Ignatious Riley
Chicago, IL
July 22nd, 2011
10:34 pm
So it turns out it wasn't the Muslim boogeyman so many Americans could not wait to blame without a shred of evidence. But instead this act of murder was perpetrated by a very white, very Christian, right wing conservative. Will we see apologies from those blindly casting stones, will they likewise question what goes on in the vicious cold blooded mind of conservative right wing Christians? One commentator said Islamic fundamentalism was a humanitarian issue. In our land of no health care and cruel cuts to the most vulnerable of society in the name of greed, we can see that perhaps it is truly fundamentalism of all colors, especially Christian and its 12 centuries penchant for war, that is the humanitarian crisis. Next time, perhaps you could wipe your frothing mouths and wait for the bodies to rot a little longer before inciting your tired witch hunt.
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grypewater
Canada
July 23rd, 2011
2:09 am
well i hope that all the islamaphobes weighing in on this feel very sheepish and small. I can't believe how many people have tried to hijack this tragedy for a chance to hate on islam and or immigration. Last time I checked it was a western nation that has an army based in almost every single country in the world. And now it comes out that not only was it not jihadists, but a muslim hating fascist christian that was the alleged perpetrator of this atrocity.

it is our man made ideologies that will be the death of us, regardless of the slant. but the people using this to talk about their own hatred and ignorance is beyond shameful.
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Dharma
Singapore
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 pm
So now it looks like it was not some Muslim who did this. In fact, Mr Breivik sounds very much like some of the commentators who have been eager to blame Muslims for the crime.
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danp
Washington DC
July 22nd, 2011
11:15 pm
Now that the suspect has been identified as a right wing extremist, I hope the commenters who rushed to blame Islam will return to post their apologies.
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Harveydad
Melbourne Florida
July 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
If Norway were like the United States, they would invade some country and kill/destroy the leader of that country as some kind of retaliation. I hope the persons or country responsible are not thought to have WMDs. I also hope Norway does not ask Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld for advice.
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WillT26
Durham, NC
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 pm
It wasn't Muslims at all. It was right-wing hatred against liberals. Intolerance knows no nationality, race or religion. Hate knows no nationality, race or religion.

The greatest fear I have is not Islamists- it is right-wing ideology which declares that might is right and that the ends justify any means. It is the don't retreat, reload mentality I see and hear everyday in the US.

I feel so terrible for the good people of Norway. People of good-will must stand together against the forces of right-wing fascism.
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anon
anon
July 23rd, 2011
1:05 am
Horrible, and my thoughts and prayers are with Norway.

But what is also appalling is the immediate assumption that islamists were to blame, and then the paragraphs about islamic terrorism after acknowledging that it was a white, blond, westerner who appears to be responsible.

Are we that racist in the West that we think only dark people, only "Others", want to kill us?

Are we that blind to the violent ideologies and desperation we are breeding within our own societies?

Have we forgotten Oklahoma City?

In America we have left wing ideologues who howl for violent Soviet style revolutions on the internet. We have right wing nut jobs who use violent language towards opponents. We have religious believers who think they speak and act for God. We have a lot of poor, unemployed, and desperate people, lots of guns, and lots of ideology.

When the TSA tightened up, I was taken aside several times for extra random frisking at the airport. People would laugh; why pull aside a blond, Scandinavian-American? What a waste of time!

What blindness. Anyone can be violent.

The enemy is within. This can happen as easily in America as in Norway. And what is most frightening is that we will miss the warnings because we are too busy being scared only of muslim terrorists that we consider "Other".
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Vijay
India
July 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
What Justin (comment #5) says is true: Islamic fundamentalism is not a problem for America alone - it is a problem for the entire world.

However, America has a far greater responsibility in exacerbating this problem, and in *nurturing the growth* of fundamentalism than most Americans know, or are willing to admit. Religious fundamentalism has always existed - but this brand of bombing, violent cross-border Islamic terrorists were created by America. They were created by the CIA in Afghanistan to fight the Russians - they were trained, given weapons and money by the CIA.

America then actively supported governments that nurtured this disease to grow. American oil purchases continue to fund these killer. Billions of dollars of foreign aid continues to pour into Pakistan, long after India has presented the US with irrefutable evidence that the Pakistani establishment is encouraging, planning and carrying out these attacks.

I know America is trying to fix this problem by starting wars in foreign countries. But if the Americans take off their blinders and start earnestly looking for solutions closer to home, I think the rest of the world may be able to heave a collective sigh of relief.
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sp
Sacramento CA
July 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
People need to understand an Islamic crusade is underway, why are these people tolerated at all. The resounding silence from the Muslim community says more than enough.
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Rafael de Acha
Cincinnati, Ohio
July 22nd, 2011
6:26 pm
My wife and I traveled for our work in the 1970's and 1980's and Norway is one of the countries we visited and loved the most. We often tell an (real-life) anecdote about a group of Americans on tour encountering a dignified older gentleman outside the Royal Palace and asking him who he was. He answered "I work there" pointing to the building in the background. It was the King himself. No bodyguards. That is but one memory of Norway, one of the loveliest countries on earth peopled by some of the nicest, most honest, most hard-working people we ever encountered. That a horror such as today's could be visited on that country is heartbreaking. Out thoughts and prayers go out to the wonderful Norwegian people.
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english44
Vermont
July 22nd, 2011
5:36 pm
Many are laying the blame at the feet of religious fundamentalism. Perhaps that is a short-sighted and convenient explanation. It destroys the equation underlying revenge and impedes understanding, ensuring the continuation of confrontational policies.

We Americans never asked nor allowed anyone to ask, why 9/11? The answer for we Americans is always, always to demonize an enemy and by that process exonerate ourselves. Just as we need the illusion of heroes, so, too, the illusion of absolute evil. What, then, with that mentality, is our responsibility beyond vindication through methods and actions as violent or more so as those used against us.

Perhaps religious fundamentalism obscures more than it illumines. How many Muslim children have been killed by NATO (read America) in Afghanistan and Iraq? How many innocents are collateral damage to us and loved ones to others? Do our actions call out fundamental human passions for justice and revenge?

Is their an equation? Perhaps an eye for an eye? Were Nagasaki and Dresden strategic bombings or revengeful passion? It is important how one frames language. Some explanations close down understanding and lead to violence...and so do not.
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Dave
Pa
July 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
I didn't know there was anybody that angry in Norway.
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Angel
New York, NY
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 pm
More than anything else, these comments reveal how much rampant prejudice there is against Islam and its practitioners in the United States. It is shameful.
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Adauto Araujo
Sao Paulo, Brazil
July 22nd, 2011
9:16 pm
I wonder, if it is confirmed that this attack was perpetrated by a radical right winger, all the hatemongers that were calling for war on Muslims will be defending in the same way an attack on right wing groups. After all right wing extremism is becoming a strong second in the causes of terrorist attacks.
What people don't seem to realize is that radical Islam is also a form of right wing ideology: hatred of foreigners, religious fundamentalism, centralized powers... aren't these things common to both groups?
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Tim
Castle Rock, CO
July 22nd, 2011
5:24 pm
Let's hold off conclusions about who did this until either the police determine the perpetrators or somone legitimately claims responsibility.
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Joanne600
NYC
July 22nd, 2011
11:56 am
The government of Norway has had its collective head in the sand regarding its immigration policy. I weep for the good people of Norway, their government has let them down.
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melissa
New York
July 22nd, 2011
9:10 pm
My prayers and thoughts are with Norwegians everywhere! I am humbled by the many posts from Norwegians demonstrating an admirable calm and willingness to suspend judgment and blame in the face of this shake up. We all stand to learn something from the dignity, patience, and humaneness of their response. Please know that I stand in solidarity with you!
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_______________________________________

Good thing we've got Christian fundamentalism and Tea Party alternatives when Islam cannot be blamed. Wait, I did not specify which Bush, and in what capacity, turned Islam into the Piñata of our times, since we surely recall the collective reaction after the Oklahoma bombing. That Bush you're are thinking about must have made Islam into the western world's Piñata.

Either Marx or War Ends the Crisis

THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN, the social arbitrageur who keeps reinventing the obvious, usually from the perspective of the elite, has authored a piece, The Start-Up of You.

Friedman uses as examples entrepreneurs who have been successful at building social networks, in financial terms for themselves and otherwise.
This is not your parents’ job market. Workers need to be able to invent, adapt and reinvent their jobs every day.

The NYTimes readership doesn't buy it and sees clear through Friedman's pacifying scheme.

C Wolfe
Bloomington, IN

It seems to me that what we're seeing is a change in how we determine value, and not in a good way. People enjoy using Facebook, but if it ceased to exist tomorrow, so what? It isn't as if people would starve, or we'd suddenly lack water or fuel or clothes to wear or clean air to breathe. People wouldn't stop sharing their experiences with each other, they'd just find another way to do it. And relatively few people would even be out of work. The economic value of Facebook is pure illusion. Ditto Twitter; the people who use it would miss it, but its existence doesn't solve the real problems confronting us, nor would its disappearance create new problems.

The supposed value of social networking companies, or internet companies that serve as mere conduits for what others create, is precisely what's wrong with the economy. They're valued in absurd disproportion to what they actually contribute to society. It's all perception and no substance. I'd feel much better if you told me that the fastest growing companies were developing new energy sources. We need to think strategically for the long term, and not simply react like infatuated teenagers to the sensation of the moment.
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A. B.
Boston

Day in and day out, this gentleman shows that he has the strange “let them eat cake” syndrome that is so common in the “intellectual” world. There are only so many techie wiz-kids. The rest of the common folks need to eat too. They need to build a stable life, raise children, take care of the elderly, and finally retire. They should be able to do that without having to “invent” themselves every day. Work should not consume every living minute.

All of the fanatical review by the quarter, the rule of the pimply faced boss who happened to think about what will attract the attention of other teenagers, is similar to the fashion world, where gaining of a extra pound will kill a career. Work is not limited to show biz, the runway, nor is it limited to silicon valley social network companies.

We need to eat, live, travel, and be healthy. All of this requires companies that cater to food, clothes, transport, power, housing, medicine. We need to focus how to do these well. We need to bring back manufacturing, we need to focus on better sources of power, we need to be able to balance the quality and cost of healthcare. All of the empty talk about silicon valley and social networking is teenage angst coming from a grown man. He us bring on the adults to solve the problem.
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Nicholas
Westmont, Ill.

The companies starring in this column – Twitter, Groupon, etc – are the froth billowing up around recent advances in electronics, computer science, and communications. While the people and businesses caught up in this froth may have career or life cycles of 3 months, they aren’t representative of people and businesses in society as a whole. Most of us couldn’t survive and raise families and keep our mental health, while struggling to keep the likes of Zynga hopping successfully from fad to fad over our entire working careers – careers which everybody says should get longer and longer.

Most of us acquire a knowledge and skill set, both through education, and over the course of our working lives. It is this knowledge and these skills, along with our personal relationships, which make us valuable. Our commitments to our professions are often life-long, and commitments to companies can be long-term. We make similar commitments to our families and our communities. We are valuable precisely because we aren’t constantly hopping from job to job, and career to career, and relationship to relationship.

Similarly, most companies can’t reinvent themselves from whole cloth every 3 months. There is long-term investment that must be repaid. There is the hard-won familiarity with a market, with a customer base, with an area of technology, that gives a company roots. Not least is a hard-won assemblage of a team of capable, motivated, and innovative employees. Successful companies are characterized by sustained effort, constant if often incremental progress, and long-term commitment to their area of excellence.

I don’t begrudge the Twitters of the world their 15 minutes of fame. But people’s lives, their families, their communities, and their civilization cannot be reinvented every 3 months. Businesses can’t start over every 3 months. We have to learn to commit, think and act long-term, without losing the capacity to innovate and renew.
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harry
michigan

Silicon valley is not going to lead this country out of the economic funk we are in today. This article is meaningless in todays climate. Our leaders have sold this country out to the lowest bidder so the elites can get even richer. The real question is will we ever employ people in manufacturing again. Not everyone can be a software designer or engineer. We still need people to build widgets. Tariffs on all imported worthless stuff is my answer.
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Dave
Florida

I'm nearing 50, and have been fortunate enough to have had some of the professional risks I've taken over the years work out well to the positive side of the ledger. But to really insist that this way of life constitutes the minimum bar for personal success requires glossing over a few other realities of life: (a) not having kids - my path toward success didn't make room for them, and in retrospect, I was incredibly fortunate that my second wife brought three teenage kids into my life who accepted me with love and as an additional guidepost in their lives, (b) celebrating creativity and real-time adaptability over all else is really just Darwinism on steroids, and (c) this path is the surest possible way forward toward a world in which income inequality becomes even more pronounced and entrenched. Having spent a few years in Silicon Valley a long time ago, I thoroughly understand this mindset. For the best and the brightest, it must be ever thus. For the rest of the population, including some of my nieces and nephews, I genuinely fear for the social repercussions yet to come.
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Marie Burns
Fort Myers, Florida

There is a vast chasm between someone "who can invent, adapt and reinvent their jobs every day" and an average college grad who applies for a job with some fear of the complex world s/he is about to enter. What you are asking young people to do strikes me as too much, too soon. I'll warrant that there are a few who already have the drive & chutzpah to reinvent themselves daily to accommodate their demanding masters -- or to strike out on their own -- but I don't think we want or need a society that demands so much of young people just getting their bearings.

What you posit and propose are actually the best evidence I've seen for a need to institute a two-year public service requirement for young people. If the nature of the public service they performed was varied across jobs and incorporated the teaching of useful skill sets, I expect some of the "graduates" of such public service programs would be ready for bigger things.

It is really too much to ask young grads to jump from a frying pan in which they were required -- for 16 of the 21 years of their lives -- to do what the teacher/professor said, into a frying pan in which they are expected to constantly think outside the box. I say, good luck to the timid -- they might not inherit the earth, but if they have done what is required of them during their school years, they deserve a piece of it.

The Constant Weader at www.RealityChex.com
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Steve R.
NY, NY

Technology has simply fulfilled it's promise of relieving the human being from so many dirty, dehumanizing, mindless, physically debilitating tasks. What is outmoded is our system of distributing resources/wealth. We must rethink the concept that in order to live a comfortable life every adult must work 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, every year, until age 70. If we have reached a point where it only requires 20 hours a week to produce all that society needs, then that has to become the standard for a weekly wage that pays the rent/mortgage/food/utility bills. If making room in the workforce for the next generation requires this generation to retire at 60, then beginning at 60 people have to have the resources to retire. There are more than enough resources to sustain the world's population in comfort and dignity; we just need a better system than the 40 hour a week, work til you die system of distribution.
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andrew
nyc

Tom, this is lunacy. I'm a college professor at a college in the top 1% of schools world-wide and I can tell you that few of OUR graduates are capable of what you're asking for. C'mon. Be serious. Out of 350,000,000 Americans, there are probably 100,000 tops with those kind of skills and abilities, intelligence and drive. So what about the other 99% of the workforce? Unemployment at 85%? We'll have a social and political revolution in this country long before it gets to that. I don't disagree that this is helpful for a top few percent to make the best of their opportunities, but without some basic solutions for the community college educated and even high school educated, lacking capital or contacts in high places, our country will simply disintegrate into anarchy.
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Scott
Seattle

I'm not sure where you've been for the last ten years but this is the reality for just about everyone under 40 in most sectors. Corportations, flush with a huge increase in talent with women joining the workforce in numbers equal to men, increased H1B visas and totally unlimited offshoring has made labor less and less valuable.

Coupled with this huge supply is the utter destruction of labor rights in America. Overtime is all but dead, unions are rare and increasingly powerless, and the business community has abandoned any obligations to train or retrain employees who they now view as easily replacable commodities.

As a 37 year old on his seventh career in the technology sector, I can tell you that the path is daunting and most people simply aren't up for it. I decided to forgo having children since our careers wouldn't allow us to spend the time necessary to raise them and expected bouts of unemployment are simply expected in the new predator economy.

Some social engineering is the only solution I can see to the problem. Labor needs to make itself scarce to industry and the federal government is the only agency powerful enough to make it happen.

The current unlimited workweek has to go. In a time where real unemployment is at nearly 20%, it's time to roll back standard hours to 32 per week and require mandatory overtime for everyone short of a C-level executive. Our enormous productivity hasn't led to a higer standard of living and that should awaken the ire of our citizens and our government.

The promise of technology bringing freedom and leisure to our lives has been replaced with a 24 hour leash and demands on our time that were unimaginable 20 years ago.

Sure, some people will rise to the challenge presented to the modern economy but they will surely find themselves thrown to the wolves by the time they're 50 years old and no longer considered attractive to companies looking for nothing less than slaves that they don't have to car for.
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Nancy
Corinth, KY

Hang on, I'm listening -

Facebook is now valued near $100 billion, Twitter at $8 billion, Groupon at $30 billion, Zynga at $20 billion and LinkedIn at $8 billion

- so we need more borderline-personality geeks to dream up ways to tap into our narcissism, self-promotion, consumerism, and sucker us into being their 'content providers' and paying for the privilege?

Those valuations are highly suspect and based on some investment banker (hah!!!!)'s opinion of their potential advertising revenue. What are they going to advertise? Each other? ('Zuckerman tries out Google+' - the Times, 2 or 3 days ago)

We have a crackhead economy based on TV ads convincing people that happiness lies in going on to the next must-have 'stuff'. It's driven by greed at the supply end and gullibility on the demand side. And now instead of tangible goods - 3-SUV-garage McMansions filled with color-coordinated housewares plus the obligatory storage unit - there's must-have membership in the next cool 'online community'.

Marx was right, altho he chose the unfortunately obscure locution 'commodity fetishism.' Now we don't even need actual goods, just a phony sense of belonging, while financial manipulators undermine truly productive work and their political puppets do their best to tax it out of existence.

No thanks. I'm going to keep raising food, and hope the indicators look good enough to let me finance a new barn roof and find someone capable of building it.
Nancy
Shady Grove Fatm
Corinth, KY
shadygrovefarm.wordpress.com
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Zeke27
New York

This is just wrong. If you want a speculation driven economy with everyone trying to be the next Bill Gates and jumping around every quarter to maximize profits, we will end up right where we are now. the 1%'ers will be eating $100 kobe beef hamburgers while the rest of us live in compounds for the underutilized.
The markets that you describe are ephemeral, and all in them live in fear of the next google, napster, facebook etc. Like Wall Street, each of these want to grow large enough to maximize profit. If they have to steal our personal data to do so, or enslave us to their business plans, then that's ok. But, they are all selling wispy ephemera with no substance.
Left out of the column are the longer career paths that require a high degree of mastery, such as design, education, construction trades, art, justice, mental health. Do you want an entrepreneur to design your home or represent you in a legal battle? As we devalue the traditional and rewarding careers in the mindless quest for instant gratification and vast wealth, we will all lose whatever quality of life we are meant to enjoy in our limited lifespans.
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Karen Garcia
New Paltz, NY

This column reads like it came straight from the White House's "Winning the Future" propaganda machine. How many times have struggling unemployed people heard the ringing presidential words "we have to out-innovate, out-educate and out-innovate the rest of the world" instead of "Today I am announcing a multibillion jobs program and I will not leave Congress alone until I get it?"

Log on and look up entrepreneurship and you too can achieve the American Dream?This presupposes not only a computer and an internet connection, but enough working capital so that all those upstarts can launch their startups. Banks will not be lending to bright-eyed college grads any time soon -- most have no collateral and most are already carrying thousands in student debt. Too risky. Besides, all those billions of dollars in quantitative easing released by the Fed to stimulate the economy are either being hoarded, lended bank-to-bank at zero interest, or invested overseas where cheap labor for pennies an hour is there for the taking.

And, if you do happen to land an actual job, be prepared to work till you drop, because there are thousands more where you came from. Get with the program and out-perform a robot and make money for your employer by evolving your skills at the speed of light. Sounds great for the employer, downright dystopian for the employee.

This all reminds me of the Charlie Chaplin character in "Modern Times", working in a factory nonstop and just a cog in the machinery. He finally cracks, flees, revolts and walks into the sunset with Paulette Goddard.

That era is back with a vengeance. But we're told that recovery is just around the corner, and we just have to smile though our hearts are aching.

http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/
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Ike Solem
CA
July 13th, 2011
8:56 am
The trend in Silicon Valley is to outsource labor to sweatshop nations in the name of cutting costs for the purpose of inflating corporate profits and hence, quarterly dividends to shareholders.

This is why Apple's Ipad is not made in Silicon Valley - pure greed on the part of top executives and shareholders and their many hangers-on. The consequences, other than rising unemployment in the U.S.?

"An explosion ripped through the Foxconn Chengdu plant in China, the factory where the Apple iPad 2 is made, killing three workers and injuring 15."

http://www.ibtimes.com/

Now, what can be done? The goal of the politicians and their CEO masters seems to be to convert the U.S. itself to a sweatshop nation, returning working conditions to those that existed around 1900 - a race to the bottom driven by 'free trade' deals and the inexorable logic of 'globalization.'

The actual result is somewhat different, however - as China's domestic markets grow, they no longer need to export so much. As they gain manufacturing skills (freely provided by U.S. corporations), they begin to develop their own R&D centers. For example, a $1 billion solar R&D facility planned for Silicon Valley recently relocated to China - not just for the incentives, but also to be closer to manufacturing lines.

So - the brilliant geniuses gut the U.S. technological innovation system in the name of increased corporate profits, and then wonder why U.S. citizens can no longer afford to fill their pockets by buying consumer goods - and who is to blame? The champions of neoliberal free trade agreements, primarily.

The U.S. has few options now, having gone deep into debt due to steep tax cuts and multi-trillion dollar wars in the Middle East and Central Asia (aimed at seizing control of regional oil & gas production - the same philosophy that inspired Soviet moves in the region, as well as German efforts in the 1940s, right?).

Pathetic.
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eem
Cambridge, MA

Facebook may be valued at $100 billion but it's revenue stands only at $2 billion. Further, Facebook does not turn a profit to speak of and only employs 2000 people world-wide. Good luck with building an economy on that. Facebook is over-valued so that Goldman and Sachs can charge higher fees by selling its stock. That's all there is to it. If we continue to stake our hopes on dotcom bubbles, we are truly doomed.
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dickginnold
San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas, Mexico

Tom, this is not one of your better columns and the Linkedin guy is not a good guru. Because of the hacking connected with accepting Linkedin messages I wont let it into my computer. Pure froth, fed by naive advertisers and populace.

Most of the jobs in the country are still done with dirty hands, e.g., all repair occupations, a growing area, care of the elderly, much of manufacturing, real estate, insurance and teaching at all levels. Government services that keep our roads, cities, sewers, water systems functioning and build new infrastructure. Construction and remodelling.
Working in big box stores can be a good career.

Most kids dont work as teenagers and are at sea when they are let out of the nest at the end of college, or pop back in burdening their parents. You dont start as a callow college grad who can manipulate the digital stuff but probably couldnt fix a faucet or toilet or sticking door.

You start by being mentored at the age of 9 or 10 to correctly run errands and do household jobs, then getting the most menial jobs at age 11 or 12, cut the chauffering to school and games, and then tough summer jobs with physical work, learning what the bottom feels like and what earning a lower wage is. Along with this, hard studying on the courses in high school and then college that will teach lessons of life. Going for the toughest teachers. You cant reinvent an empty, fragile, shell.

If you think the digital revolution, advertising flim flam and soft occupations will save the US, forget it. Our kids dont have the grit and desire because their parents didnt give it to them and we are being beat at every turn by the Mexicans, Asians and other groups that had to struggle. Wages have been stagnant for almost 40 years and are going down in many areas. This will accelerate as not just China, but the other hardworking emerging societies like Brazil, Argentina, Colombia and other Asian, African societies get their industries and confidence.
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Robert W.
San Diego, CA

I have read many of your opinion pieces about what we must do to compete in the job market in this new world of ours, and it seems that you have failed to address a major elephant in the room. Let’s see, we must be updating our skills all the time, gaining new ones, pitching our talents, living like entrepreneurs to maintain middle class jobs, etc. In fact, Fareed Zakaria tells us we must all learn a second language. Any linguist will tell you that fluency in a second language requires at least 10,000 hours of study.

Time to address the elephant in the room: Children are a luxury most Americans can no longer afford. Everyone knows that to have a decent shot at success a child needs two parents to spend a good amount of time with him or her. It’s quite clear from your articles that the amount of time children need is no longer available to the working or middle class American. If we are supposed to work our 10 hour days then go strait to our classes to keep our skills up to date, or develop and pitch our new ideas, or learn Chinese, when are we going to help little Jane and Johnny with their homework? Or talk to them? Or anything else? Can we have dinner with the family when we are doing all the things we are supposed to do to compete in this new world? Hardly. And what are we going to feed our children with when one job ends and we’re spending months designing our new product and pitching it to those 300 V.C.s? I know, our savings. Or rather, their savings. They can eat instead of going to college.

With “Uncertain, rapidly changing conditions,” having a child today means his future will be uncertain and his upbringing will be in a sea of rapidly changing conditions without the stability children need. And if the parents want to bring home the bacon, the children’s lives will have to be devoid of parental involvement. The only solution I see is for the wealthy to breed like rabbits. The wealthy should have all the kids they can. Donald Trump’s kids should have
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lindalipscomb
california

I call the employment problem "the Fourth World Economics Problem".As technology advances, and populations increase, fewer and fewer workers are necessary to perform the basic reproduction of societies, and more and more people need work to get the basics of life. It's like two trains barreling straight for each other!

The work week in the US hasn't changed in decades, but both unemployment and re-deployment to war has become a haphazard way of changing the 35-40 hour work week. The war machine replaces both the birth and expansion of the industries which would spring up from thoughtful allocations of resources, or from consumerism. This patchy approach to a systemic problem has harms those on the short end of the work week, competing globally for ever dwindling numbers of jobs. For those for whom military deployment is their only real hope of a job, the consequences entail both physical and mental burdens for their lifetimes. We see this now all over the Middle East with millions of unemployed young people rioting for the freedom to make a living and the democratic participation that follows.

Can we solve the "Fourth World Economics Problem"? Perhaps. There are really only 3 ways that humans get the stuff needed for survival. The first way is by some kind of gift or inheritance.The second is by force - one takes it. Many world dictators or common thieves come to mind; it is only a question of degree. The third method, by far the most widespread, is through work.

Without work, there is no hope to address the problem. When private industry does not do it, government MUST create jobs. So I propose my 3 point program to save our economy AND our democracy: 1.End the wars. ALL of them. 2.Tax the rich,'cause that's where the money is. 3.Take the money from 1 and 2 and invest it in infrastructure: schools, roads, healthcare, you get the idea! Unemplyment will be over in two years. And we can repay the national debt!
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M. Kraishan
Kuwait

This is amusing! If I am able to re-invent myself every other day and come up with the equivalent of Facebook and Twitter every other year, why would I bother seeking employment? What does adding value every day mean exactly?

Work is only part of the human endeavor. Jobs should cover the spectrum of people’s abilities and circumstances. It should not be a saga of technological adventure and invention and an entrepreneurial undertaking to get a decent salary at the end of the month. The excessive valuations of these Technology companies is only there because of “potential,” and because, I may add, of so much money in the hands of the few who do not know what else to do with it.
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