multum non multa

that part of the world again

2012-02-08T17:45:00.000-08:00

JudyB
Belgrade, ME

The Syrian government has gotten the message from the international community that it will not intervene, so it is free to destroy the opposition. The Russian and Chinese vetoes in the U.N. Security Council reflect these countries' fears of their own people, which is why they cling so desperately to the "nonintervention in internal affairs" excuse. I fear that the Russian foreign minister's visit and vague statements of talks with the opposition will give Assad time to completely obliterate Homs just like his father did. The world will stand by, be shocked, and do nothing.

Phillip
Houston, Tx

We are so gullible here in America. This is so much bigger than Assad trying to hold onto power. It's a power struggle for influence in the region. On one side you have China, Russia and Brazil. On the other side you have America, Germany and Great Britain. Both sides wish to excercise their influence in the region. During the Bush administration we kidnapped suspected terrorists and their supporters. The USA spirited them over to Syria and Egypt to be tortured outside of the authority of American courts.

Syria has received millions of dollars in military aid from Russia. That pales in comparison with the billions of dollars that America provides to Israel. If an armed insurrection happened in America we wouldn't call them the opposition. We would call them terrorists and they would be dealt with accordingly. Some of us in America still use our brains. We examine the history of the region. Collect the facts and are able to see the larger picture. We loved Assad during the Bush era. Now Assad is the villian. Assad became the villian when he began courting the Chinese, Russians and now Brazil.

The Syrian government isn't stupid. They see what happened in Iraq and in Afghanistan when we American's arrived. The see the ridiculous size of the American Embassy in Iraq. Syria understands how America is trying to exercise our influence in the region. The insurrection in Syria has been emboldened by the C.I.A.

common sense
New Hyde Park, NY

To know the source of strength underpinning Assad, look to the Iranian regime. That regime will not let Assad fall. It has already funneled billions to prop him up. His control over Syria is vital to keeping the mullah's weapon route open to the Iranian proxy army in Lebanon. To bring down Assad, the Arab League should be sanctioning the Islamic Republic.
Iranian Revolutionary Guards are now active in the military onslaught in Syria and some have recently been captured working for Assad's forces. The leader of the elite Quds Force is now in Damascus and using his successful experience in destroying the Iranian freedom movement to repress the Syrian feedom fighters.
The extremist Islamic regime which has control over Iran is the cancer of the Middle East. It is the source of weapons and money to the most violent, anti-peace forces in the region. Until that tumor of terror is destroyed, there will be no peace.

Don Stubbs
Twin Cities MN

I would really like to know what "ordinary" Russians think about their government's involvement with Assad. In particular, what they think is the solution to ending Assad's assault on his own citizens. I don't get very far in my search because it seems there are no Russian news outlets - at least in English - that are not propaganda organs of the state.

robert
bruges

The time to discuss is over, I fear. To much blood has already been spoiled. We will be confronted with a political and ethnic conflict (Sunnis versus Shiites or Alawites) that will be terrible its consequences.

Like it was the case in Sarajevo in the nineties, we will be confronted with gruesome images, of suffering and dying children and women and young people.

Russia is again choosing the butcher's side, like it did with Milosevic.

China for its part has made a serious mistake by compromising its relationship with the Arab states, rich in the much needed oil and gas....

The international community should help the Syrian people, because a process of ethnic cleansing has been started.

Joe Rodrigez
NYC

oh man, give peace a chance. The US is not exactly an angel, we have "too many domestic issues" to be going around telling every one else how to live and do things. Dont forget us Americans have gone to Iraq and killed our own and hundreds of thousands of people, including innocent ones you dont hear about for a war that was a lie from the very beginning and everyday someone dies for some restless/paranoid/egotistical politicians !!! And what happened to the liberation in Libya ? its a joke, nothing has changed except businessmen having more leverage to buy everything out and the army got rid of their old stock ? I love this country but we are often getting ahead of ourselves , and bash anything to do with Russia, always looking to make them out as the evil ones and were the hero's, please stop this bull . Lets fix our own first , so that we can lead the world by example if that is so absolutely necessary !! Some cultures cannot change over night, real freedom is expensive and takes time! we should know this best!

Alex
Russian Federation

When US shuts down an embassy or sever ties with Syria's ruling political party , it's an important indicator of forthcoming events that are about to unfold in front of our eyes. Humanitarian aid to the 'freedom fighters' in Syria will be simular to the mujaheddin's aid in Afghanistan in early 80's . Civil war is imminent.

Albert Edelson
Nes Ziona, Israel

Putin, Lavrov and Assad are expert at denial, dismantling and confabulation.
Their twisted, murderous, disturbed logic symptomizes an as yet undiagnosed psychopathic destructiveness. This trio will go down in history as "folie a trois". The people of Syria need immediate humanitarian aid, and the presence of Doctors without Frontiers to alleviate their unbearable suffering. Every hour that humanitarian help does not come, is a stain on the conscience of the Western World.

Rob
Bradenton

The US has no business intervening in Syria's Civil War. No other country intervened in our Civil War when a huge % of the population was slaughtered (yes, including women and children!!) in the name of "preserving the union." Remember General Sherman? Yet Lincoln is considered our greatest president!! Many idiots compare this to WWII and say that the US went to war against Germany to "save the jews." Nothing could be further from the truth! Roosevelt and the antisemitic State Dept knew full well about the slaughter of the jews and specifically refused to bomb a single railroad link to Auchswitz for fear that America's war against Germany had anything to do with saving the jews. We are not the policeman of the world to stop anything that offends our sensibilities. Let Syria resolve its own Civil War as the US did. If Assad is a terrorist and murderer why wasn't Lincoln? I dare anyone to answer this question!

Gennady Shkliarevsky
Rhinebeck, NY

It is distressing to see that the majority of comments completely lack critical dimension--critical, that is, when you ask yourself a question: Is everything I am doing right? Is everything my opponent is doing necessarily wrong? I think that the strong point of Western democracy has always been the capacity for a compromise and giving the benefit of the doubt even to your opponents. It is regretful to see that this attitude is giving way to pro-Western advocacy, if not jingoism. Has the Western intervention brought peace, stability, and democracy to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt? Whence comes this certainty that in the case of Syria an intervention will absolutely work out to the benefit of its people, rather than to a parochial benefit of those who will intervene? When has a pursuit of one's own national interests made the world stable? That is why we have the United Nations. Russia and China have exercised their legitimate right in the Security Council. The US has exercised it also many times. Why is it wrong in one case but right in another? Can anyone explain?

Matty
Boston, MA

Syria has long been a military client for the USSR/Russia.

Mk
NEW YORK CITY

The only reason Mr Lavrov vistied Syria so he can get paid for the arms shipment his country had send last week.

pppprppp
kansas city

and what about the thousands of Syrians who stil support Assad? Are their wishes to be ignored?

SBot
HuBot

Syria is a country that allows weapons to pass through its territory to Lebanon and the west bank. These weapons come from Iran. These weapons used to be rockets, explosives, small arms.

1. That the 'leaders' of these countries allow this to happen is bad enough.
2. That the black market arms dealers might transport weapons without the leaders' knowledge, is a threat to world peace.
3. How did China, N Korea, Pakistan get the bomb?
4. Why?

If America wanted to bomb the world and steal everything, we would simply do it.

Real heroes, of many nationalities, are working together to not only Contain, but Uproot the factors (people, associations) that permit rogue weapon transportation. These groups sell drugs, weapons, people - it must end.

I think Russia and China understand that it must end. Not too sure about al-Assad.

He is a fool. Soon, he to will be dead.

German
Orlando,FL

Russian diplomacy does not have any credibility and never has. They only look for their own interest and still live in a war cold mentality....so any outcome will not have significant results.

beholder
Saint Louis

" The death toll could not be independently confirmed ".This sentence should be at the beginning of the reports about Syria.It is meaningless and even misleading if tucked away somewhere else in a long report.

NYTimes readers about IRAN

2012-01-26T16:59:00.000-08:00

Daoud Canada
I can't believe this is even a consideration. Is the Iranian government the best of all possible worlds? Hardly. BUT Has modern Iran invaded any other countries? Does Iran have aircraft carrier groups in the Gulf of Mexico? Has Iran shot down American airliners in American air space? (No, but the US has shot down an Iranian airliner in Iranian air space). Were the 22 9/11 suicide terrorists and Al-Queda Iranian or supporters of Iran? NO, they were mostly Saudi. And the Saudis, Al-Queda, and the Taliban despise the Iranians. Is the ongoing insurgency in Afghanistan supported by neighbouring Iran? No. Saudia Arabia has done far more harm to the US and western interests than Iran has ever contemplated.

I greatly dislike the Iranian government and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a horrible buffoon, who says ridiculously stupid rhetorical things, but is vigorously opposed by many Iranians, the US should be very familiar with that situation from 8 years with George W. Bush!

Let Iran be, Ahmadinejad will fade away, and they will slowly evolve in positive directions with the energy and modernity of its enormous youth coupled, who are inevitably the future of a nation.

Attack Iran, and you unleash great horrors on the world, while uniting every Iranian with the worst of its government.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:33 p.m.RECOMMENDED148
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WendiChico, CA
While I believe that Amedenijad is an egotistical nut job, supporting attacks on Iran by Israel is not the way to go. I know the Republicans are all over this, but getting involved in this kind ‘crazy talk’ will not serve this Country at all. We need to take care of our own problems and let Netanyahu worry about Israel.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:55 p.m.RECOMMENDED103

Archie1954Vancouver
Iran is not Iraq or Afghanistan, so please don't ever make the mistake of thinking an attack on it will be a cake walk. There will be huge collateral damage to American interests both at home and abroad, both military and economic. So please tell me why the US would accept the risk of such blowback. I really would like to know what part of US national security is threatened by Iran. Iran is a country that unlike the US has never attacked and occupied another country. It's history unlike the US's does not include numerous wars, attacks, occupations, threats, covert terrorist attacks, embargoes, economic warfare and ancillary belligerant offenses on other countries. So why is the US running scared, why is nothing off the table, why is the Congress just aching for another military debacle when there is absolutely no proof or evidence of a nuclear weapons manufacturing plant in Iran? Can you tell me? I sure would like to know.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:37 p.m.RECOMMENDED94

zorbeckFrankfurt
So, if I understand well, 2012 could be the year of the beginning of the end. I am not particularly fan of Amadenijad and his clerical masters, but I wonder how the West would have reacted if nuclear scientists in Dimona had been decimated in the same way as Iranins today. Denouncing a surge of insidious antisemitic terrorism maybe ?

Arabs have lived with 200 nuclear warheads at their doorstep for nearly 50 years and they survived. Can't Israel survive a nuclear Iran several thousand kms away ? Doesn't Iran have many other reasons to posess AMDs than Israel ? Can't Israel see that by attacking Iran it will trigger, in the long term and possibly even in the short term, precisely what it pretends to avoid ? There are numerous signs that young Iranians hate the regime in place, why pushing them in the ayatola's arms ?
Jan. 25, 2012 at 11:15 a.m.RECOMMENDED84

ElleCloudcuckooland
The Republicans, except Paul (whose foreign policy views seem scary to me) are beating the drum against Iran and in favor of the current Israeli government. I find this frightening, especially Gingrich, who will literally ($10,000,000 so far) owe his election to a rabid proponent of the current Israeli government.
I wish we could consider our own longterm interests and be less influenced by a certain stream of proIsrael opinion. (I consider myself proIsrael, and believe Israel is risking its future by the settlements, its disdain for other democracies, its brand of militarism)
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:37 p.m.RECOMMENDED82

billabalamma
Israel has nukes. Iran and what to do with the nucs is their problem.

Don't get me, my children or my grandchildren into a nuclear confrontation unless we, the US of A, are directly threatened. Do you know or recall, how Germany allowed Austria to drag it and the world into WWI?

We recognized Israel in 48 or 49, maybe not wisely. We should keep our responsibility limited to ensuring the boundaries of the peaceful state we recognized then, not the one claimed now, are not erased.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:54 p.m.RECOMMENDED71

Jack1947NYC
India has lived with a nuclear Pakistan that shelters its terror proxies under a nuclear umbrella. Japan and South Korea have lived with a nuclear North Korea. Israel too will have to live with nuclear neighbors including Iran.

Ehud Barak's observation: "An Iranian bomb would ensure the survival of the current regime, which otherwise would not make it to its 40th anniversary in light of the admiration that the young generation in Iran has displayed for the West. With a bomb, it would be very hard to budge the administration.” is misguided. An Israeli attack will bring all Iranians together. The 'young generation in Iran is just as much in favor of nuclear weapons as the Ayatollahs. An Israeli attack will precipitate a 1000 years of heightened hatred in the middle east that will do no one any good.

Unlike Pakistan, the Iranian leadership are pragmatic and realistic. Iran's reasons for the nuclear option (as Barak has indicated) include immunity from western attack. It is lost on no one that if Iraq and Libya had nukes, Saddam and Qaddafi would still be in power. In fact the North Koreans said as much. Similarly, Pakistan continues its shenanigans and we put up with them because they have nukes.

No easy answers but attacking Iran is clearly the wrong answer.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:12 p.m.RECOMMENDED67

ArchArcadia, Ca
Ronen Bergman wrote, “and tenacity, the fierce conviction, right or wrong, that only the Israelis can ultimately defend themselves.”
Right, that is why Israel needs US made bunker-busting bombs, US made jets to deliver them, US fuel tankers, and the US Navy to keep the straits open.
US soldiers have been fighting for Israel ever since the US military airlifted to Israeli massive quantities of weapons during the 1967 War. (Without logistics, the front-line foot soldier is useless: The man who carries the bullets to the battlefield is as important as the soldier who fires the bullets.)
Israel cannot defend itself without US aid.
Israel should be required to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
The Middle East should be a nuclear free zone.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:51 p.m.RECOMMENDED59

Archie1954Vancouver
Your point is well taken. The whole mess is keyed on the Israelis and it is up to them to settle it before it becomes a bloodbath. If the US weren't continually backing Israel whether wrong or right, Israel would have settled with the Palestinians decades ago.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:33 p.m.RECOMMENDED59

CarltonMontclair
If Israel continues to illegally occupy the West Bank and Gaza Strip and oppress and humiliate the Palestinians that live there they will have no security ....Period
They are not hated because they are Jews. They are hated because they are occupiers of lands that don't belong to them.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:57 p.m.RECOMMENDED57

Palmer1619Warminster, PA
Natanyahu will do whatever he wants to do. He seldom tells us what his plans are. He feels he can get away with it because he can count on the US to react in his favor. But why should we have to answer for the voters of Israel? They are the ones who elected hawks. Do we think that the Israelis didn't know that? I don't think so. Israel has always been in a kind of limbo given what surrounds them. Why do the voters there insist on electing a government that relies more on military actions than negotiations? The things the Bush administration did, it did in our name and we are still answering for that. Why do we have to answer for what the Israeli government is doing?
Jan. 25, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.RECOMMENDED57

EronPA
"Will Israel Attack Iran?"
A better Question would be

Will Israel brow beat America into attacking Iran for it?

Here is an idea, Israel has the most powerful military AND atomic deterrent in the middle east. Why dont we let Iran and Israel sort it out on their own?
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:52 p.m.RECOMMENDED54

Padman Boston
I am exhausted after reading this whole report, I can see all the reasons why Israel wants to block Iran from making the nukes but still does not make sense. It is not possible for Israel to totally halt the Iranian nuclear project by means of a military attack witout American support and Americans would not go for it. A military strike by Israel and America would be catastrophic for the whole world. Israel should give up this crazy idea of attacking Iran. Let Iran have the nukes. Israel has to learn to live with a nucler Iran. I don't believe that just because Irann has the nukes they are going to wipe out Israel off the map. This is just paranoia. World has more reasons to worry about Pakistan's nuclear weapons falling into wrong hands ( al-Qaida) than Iran eliminating Israel.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED52

DavidSchaps
Although they frightened us at the time, it is now clear that neither Japan nor Germany had, or even thought they had, any possibility of conquering and holding even a small portion of the continental United States in 1941; and their decision to declare war put them on a course from which the best they could hope for was a stalemate, and the more likely outcome was their total destruction. Historians now marvel at the blindness that led them to start a war they had no hope of pursuing to a successful conclusion.
Israel, too, has no capability of conquering and holding even a small portion of Iran: they would not be welcomed by any section of the population (even those who hate the ayatollahs), and they haven't got the manpower to conquer, much less to police, so vast and varied an area. I am sure they do not even have a theoretical plan for a ground attack in Iran, just as the Japanese and the Germans had no plan, even theoretical, for an infantry assault on the USA.
And since the war can not end with the conquest of Iran by Israel, it can only end with a stalemate after both sides have been worn down awfully (and in the course of which the Iranians have probably developed and perhaps used nuclear weapons), or with a result yet worse for Israel. As an Israeli, I can understand why my government would want to give the impression of being willing to attack. I hope and pray that they are not foolish enough to stand behind their threats.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:51 p.m.RECOMMENDED50

Milby Boston, MA
Two points I don't see being made very often: 1) Imagine what the situation looks like to Iran. They are under siege from all sides, their citizens are being assassinated, they are constantly threatened with attack, invasion, and regime change, and they are the victims of a concerted and destructive economic war. 2) Nuclear weapons are essentially defensive. They are a guarantee that your nation wont be attacked. It is impossible for Iran to use them preemptively in an attack against Israel, or anyone else, because the entire country would be obliterated in the inevitable retaliation. It just doesn't make any sense that a nuclear Iran would be able to threaten its neighbors or extend nuclear protection to Hamas or Hezbollah or otherwise throw its weight around in the manner Israeli officials are suggesting because those threats simply couldn't be taken seriously. Given the siege mentality of Iran's political leadership, it is only logical for them to pursue nuclear weapons to protect against the invasion they are constantly threatened with. Remember, Israel has at least 200 nuclear weapons that will blanket all of Iran within an hour of any nuclear attack. Iran is not suicidal.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED49

Buzz kSF, Ca
What does the Unites States get from a collective strike on Iran? More unilateral support for our paper "ally" Israel and another trillion dollar deficit to add to our tally sheet?

Good luck Israel.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:50 p.m.RECOMMENDED47

rUS
Of course it's up to Obama. It's entirely up to Obama.

He should be threatening the Israelis with an end to ALL aid, a naval blockade followed by a cruise missile strike on Tel Aviv should they DARE to further destabilize the region by launching an illegal attack on Iran.

Then he should issue an ultimatum: Israel can keep its nuclear arsenal and in exchange, the US will help Iran achieve nuclear parity with them, OR israel relinquishes its WMD and a non-nuclear zone in the Mid East under international supervision is put in place, which is very do-able and represents the only sane strategy to avoid catastrophe.
In reply to salgadoceJan. 25, 2012 at 3:37 p.m.RECOMMENDED45

Ann Delacy Columbia, Maryland
Israel has had warheads for decades, does that possibly frighten Iran and other neighbors of Israel?

Whatever the case, my position is that we have suffered a significant loss of American lives and expended resources that were sorely need by the USA during the last ten years. We simply cannot fiscally or emotionally afford to be dragged into another situation in the Middle East.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:52 p.m.RECOMMENDED40

simjamBethesda, MD
Why does the NY Times keep running incendiary articles that, in effect, keep the US getting involved in a war with Iran on the table? The owner/editors need to come clean.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:52 p.m.RECOMMENDED36

Jazd86Australia
Has everyone forgotten that time and time again the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has inspected and reported that Iran has no nucear weapons program or materials pure enough to even start one? This whole idea is a fear mongering campign. I wish the media would invest more time in reporting that Israel is not part of the nuclear non proliferation treaty, as Iran is, and poses more of a threat to world peace through this fear campaign than they are telling us that Iran does. This is shear madness! Get the facts people. Don't just believe what you hear.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:51 p.m.RECOMMENDED36

kcomesswashington
This is an excellent and thoughtfully prepared article. Unfortunately, the author's conclusion seems valid.

While I certainly support Israel's "right to exist" (not that my endorsement is necessary: that should be a given internationally), I do not support the attitudes and actions of the current government, which not only appears to have adopted many self-defeating actions and attitudes and has not only encouraged extreme right-wing domestic reaction, but is now (once again) on the verge of acting against its manifest best interests.

The problem, as nicely presented in the article, is that an attack on Iran simply won't work and it will be followed by consequences which will be internationally disastrous. So, if President Obama has any remaining sense, he will tell Israel something to the effect that, "You are an independent nation and we can't order you to do anything. However, the US has its own interests and an attack on Iran is not one of them for all the reasons that are well known to your government. So, if you proceed against our wishes, we will refuse to support you, including with logistical, intelligence and equipment resupply, we will cut off military and foreign aid and we will vigorously and unequivocally denounce your actions in the UN. We will follow that with sanctions."

Alternatively, Iran and Israel could reach some sort of compromise, either of an overt or tacit nature. Of course, neither of those will happen, will they?
Jan. 25, 2012 at 7:01 p.m.RECOMMENDED35

Maggie2 Maine
An attack on Iran would not resolve anything, but it most assuredly would unite the people of Iran, even those who oppose the current regime. For all its bluster and posturing, I doubt very much if Iran poses a genuine threat to Israel or any other country. All this talk of attacking Iran is not at all helpful to any possibilty of a return to the negotiating table and is irresponsible in the extreme.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED35

Mark ThomasonClawson, Michigan
Trusted
A war would be bad. Use of nuclear weapons against Iran by Israel would be an entirely different matter, essentially suicide.

The Israelis must be made to understand that if they cross that psychological threshold for use of nuclear weapons, then someone will most certainly use one on Israel next. It might be Pakistan, or Saudis, or other Gulf Arabs, or Turkey, or China, or Russia, but someone will sooner rather than later take them out. Everyone would be harmed and threatened, and everyone will react to some extent. With that barrier broken, it would be just a matter of time. One or more would gain vengeance, or just end the problem, by ending Israel.

The threat of crossing that line is far more dangerous to Israel than the threat of Iran, nuclear or otherwise.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:49 p.m.RECOMMENDED33

JYNXNortheast corridor
I am exhausted by the trouble 7,992 sq mi causes world peace.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.RECOMMENDED33

rUS
Except they are NOT threatened by Iran--they're threatened by Israel.

Just as the regional powers were ALL opposed to America's massacre in Iraq. They did NOT fear Saddam, they feared the terrorists of the United States— with very good reason.
In reply to ZZJan. 25, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.RECOMMENDED31

HamzaRichmond
Israel had nuclear weapons before the Iranian threat. What was their raison d'tre?

America has been conducting covert and proxy wars with Iran before anyone ever put Iran and Nukes in the same sentence.

This is not about Iran or Nukes. It's about oil and the control of Libyan, Iranian, Iraqi Oil and the middle east.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:42 p.m.RECOMMENDED30

DoyenNY
Iran has been trying “to deal with us through diplomacy.” The response from Washington has been belligerent threats of military attack, unfounded and irresponsible accusations that Iran is making a nuclear weapon, sanctions and an oil embargo. Washington’s accusations echo Israel’s and are contradicted by Washington’s own intelligence agencies and the International Atomic Energy Agency. Why doesn’t Washington respond to Iran in a civilized manner with diplomacy? Really, which of the two countries is the greatest threat to peace?
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED28

Joe New York
This may sound like an unorthodox view, but here it is, anyway. For almost 50 years, from the end of World War 2 unil the demise of the Soviet Union, the whole world lived under the specter of a nuclear catastrophe. Both Superpowers possessed - and still do - enough nuclear weapons to wipe out the entire planet many times over. Characteristically, Einstein is supposed to have said that he was not sure about the weaponry of World War 3, but, for sure, World War 4 would be fought with stones and slingshots. Reason prevailed and nothing happened. The Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) poilcy actually saved the world. It is also unclear whether the US would have bombed Hiroshima, if it knew that Japan possessed the same weapon. In the current Middle East situation, it is well known, if not officially confirmed, that Israel possesses a fairly large number of nuclear weapons. Looking at this historical analogy, one should ponder whether the world would be SAFER with an Iran that possesses a nuclear weapon, thus establishing a MAD equilibrium between Israel and Iran.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.RECOMMENDED28

AlexQueens, NY
A new year is here, but the same old story of treats by Israel against its neighbors continue! Today its the Iranians, yesterday was the Turks, Lebanese, Palestinians, etc..etc.. I just want this madness to stop, before we all suffer.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED27

RVN88Houston,TX
As long as there is Israel, there will never be world peace and prosperity for all nations! And as long as we support this rogue, artificial state, everyone in the world will hate us.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:50 p.m.RECOMMENDED26

EinsteinAmerica
In our world of humanity, Jews and Arabs actually have a lot in common.

This conflict is really more like a family feud that is engulfing the rest of humanity.

Both Jews and Arabs and Persians have beautiful ancient cultures. Why can't they try to respect each other. Why can't they use their collective intelligence to show the world a new way to peace?

Most of humanity just wants to live in peace. We beg you to overcome your differences and create a nuclear-free zone.

It is time to find a path to peace and harmony for the sake of all humanity.$
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:38 p.m.RECOMMENDED24

JerryVNYC
As a longtime supporter of the State of Israel (but not its current government), I believe that an airstrike on Iran would be stupid. We can hope that the young people of Iran will someday be successful in creating an Iranian Spring and the development of a more moderate Iranian government. But an airstrike on Iran would alienate these youg people. Patriotism would come first and all hope of an Iranian Spring would be lost. This is how the young people reacted when Iran was attacked by Sadam's Iraq. They would do so again.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.RECOMMENDED24

dubiousnew york
Isn't Amed's term over soon?. Sounds like Israel wants to remain the only super power in the area. How come they are allowed to have 500 nukes that they are fitting into subs now.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:54 p.m.RECOMMENDED22

Jon DavisNM
Netanyahu = Ahmedinejad.

If the world could rid of both men and their followers, the world would be a better place. But their existence does highlight two fundamental truths: All religions are the same and no religion has anything positive to offer the world.

And after all, some of the cruelest Islamic practices...like stoning rape victims to death for allowing themselves to be raped...was taken directly from the Jewish Old Testament.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 4:54 p.m.RECOMMENDED22

DeVonAtlanta, GA
With Iran's nuclear facilities all deeply underground, what exactly would Isreal be bombing? And I just don't see Iran makeing a pre-emptive or unprovoked attack on Isreal, knowing that the rest of the world would bomb the country out of existence. Plus in a possible war with Iran, do we know what side Russia and China are on? I think that President Obama would only go after Iran if there is an international coalition. He does not believe in a pre-emptive go it alone policy like Bush believe in.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:33 p.m.RECOMMENDED22

Colin WrightRichmond, California
"...On the other hand, when a scientist — one who is not a trained soldier or used to facing life-threatening situations, who has a wife and children — watches his colleagues being bumped off one after the other, he definitely begins to fear that the day will come when a man on a motorbike knocks on his car window.” "

In other words, Israel openly practices terrorism, and we continue to support her and protect her from the consequences of that.
Jan. 26, 2012 at 10:54 a.m.RECOMMENDED21

Buzz kSF, Ca
US Aid to Israel is $3.2 billion a years in military allowance plus loan guarantees for billions more plus in August, Ehud Barak told the US Govt Israel wanted $20 billion more.

Every cent we give this wealthy democracy in weapons only "aids" in the perception they don't ever need to make peace. We will just come stuffing them with more and more weapons to kill muslims....not a good plan.
In reply to ArchJan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED21

Archie1954Vancouver
If as the US says, Iran is attempting to get nuclear weapons, an accusation not yet proven, it is for one reason and one reason only, the possession of such weapons by Israel. Either that part of the Middle East was to be nuclear weapon free or it was to have equal access to such weapons by the nations located there. The US with a nod and a wink allowed or even perhaps assisted Israel in possessing those weapons, so today's problems once more can be laid at America's door as is usual in all the hot spots in the world.
In reply to zorbeckJan. 25, 2012 at 3:33 p.m.RECOMMENDED20

Joe Schmoe Brookyn
I agree with Arch. Even if the US aid is a "small part" of Israel's budget, the fact is that they at least have the implicit backing of the USA, and are thus emboldened to do things that effectively make the USA look bad, all the while knowing that the big bully on the block will swoop in to save them if the going gets really rough. Anybody who believes the country of Israel to be an entity that could exist as it currently does, with its currently aggressive policies, without the well known support of the United States is deluded. Watch how quickly Israel plays nice if the USA openly told Israel they're on their own unless, in return for their foreign aid and military backing, they do things that are actually in the USA's interests, like finally making peace with the Palestinians, halting settlement building, etc.
In reply to ArchJan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED19

DTNYC
The author makes a leap at the end which is not supported by the latter half of the article. He shows how much of the Israeli military leadership agrees that it would be futile to attack Iran alone. Netanyahu and Barak are not foolish. They are military men and they know this. And yet the author argues the he believes Israel will attack in 2012. It should be abundantly clear from all these discussions that Israel would not embark on such an adventure alone. And the US is certainly unlikely to go along in the current political environment. So Israel really has no choice but to continue covert operations (assuming they are behind the sabotage), and push for crippling sanctions and encourage opposition groups for regime change. The one major benefit to the Iraq war was the removal of a tyrant. Imagine a free and liberal Iran. The potential is huge. There's a large, young, Western-admiring population. Iran could be a major ally to the US, and yes, even Israel (as they were before the Islamic Revolution). A war would negate any possibility of a friendly Iran, and Israel wouldn't risk creating a permanent enemy who is hellbent on obtaining and using nuclear weapons.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED19

Mark ThomasonClawson, Michigan
Trusted
"For Israel to do this successfully they will have no choice but use tactical nuclear bombs"

Yes, there is a choice not to commit a nuclear holocaust, and Israel of all nations ought to know that.

But if you were right, then that would itself justify an Iranian nuclear deterrent. That is the logic of going around nuking people.

And once that starts, one bomb countries that don't get along with anyone will have a very short life span.

So it is not just criminal, it is also a losing move.
In reply to FigaroJan. 25, 2012 at 8:14 p.m.RECOMMENDED17

Mark ThomasonClawson, Michigan
Trusted
That may be because its not true, and everyone who cares actually knows that.
In reply to Seward RileyJan. 25, 2012 at 5:00 p.m.RECOMMENDED17

HankMaine
TO: r . US

Your comments could be an excellent solution. The United States must make every reasonable effort to stop any war between Israel and Iran within the next 90 days.

If this continues to escalates after the 90 day period the US should with all member countries of the United Nations immediately cut off any and all aid, commerce, banking, diplomatic relations, military assistance etc. to Israel and Iran.

I believe this could resolve the stalemate that has not only affected stability in Iran and Israel but the whole region and possibly the world.

Smart leaders and citizens of these two countries must understand war is not the answer as neither may not survive.

Rational leadership must understand negotiation is the proper way to resolve this matter. Talks vs. all out war, should and must be the only option.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED17

DeVonAtlanta, GA
Well after 10 years of war in the middle east, the last thing this country needs is to start a new war with Iran. As someone else pointed out when has Iran attacked or bombed any other country? I think the American people need to rise up and be heard and fight against the right's constant drumbeat for war with Iran.
In reply to AriJan. 25, 2012 at 4:48 p.m.RECOMMENDED17

green444 Ann Arbor, MI
You assume the Palestinians would have "settled" with the Israeli's. Is there no room in your world view to accept that the Arabs in the region, Palestinians included, have never accepted Israel as a neighbor and are still focused on their destruction?
In reply to Archie1954Jan. 25, 2012 at 3:50 p.m.RECOMMENDED17

bergamo italy
attacking iran would be another of the crazy things that the Israeli governments since the inception of the state, have accustomed us to expecting. It will not work, because no "surgical" strike has worked so far. It will unite Iranians under Khamenei, while now there is a chance for a change in government, and will bring support for an acceleration, not delay, of the process.
And, in the end, why should Israel have hundreds of bombs, Israel the most war mongering, conservative, aggressive state in the region?
Jan. 26, 2012 at 11:27 a.m.RECOMMENDED14

Mark S Boston, MA
There is the complicating factor that 2012 is an election year in the US. While I don't want to imply that this is the sole (or even major) impetus behind the mounting pressure, I can't imagine Netanyahu DOESN'T know that if he attacks, he will put a president who has struggled against being perceived as anti-Israel in a very, very tight bind only a few months before his election. Obama will probably have little choice at that point, and that's unfortunate.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:09 p.m.RECOMMENDED14

rUS
"Why do the Arab nations seem to have no interest in stopping Iran?"

Because Iran is not the problem. The US and Israel are the problem.
In reply to Jeff S.Jan. 25, 2012 at 5:01 p.m.RECOMMENDED13

salgadoce New Mexico
Even if the Israelis force regime change (via US intervention), the 'green' reformists are just as likely to aggressively pursue a nuclear program, so I don't really see the long term benefits of preemptive military action.

If Israel strikes unilaterally, the best it can hope for is to precipitate a US reaction to an Iranian counterattack. I don't believe they are prepared or even capable of any type of prolonged ground offensive (it'd be more of a 'defensive' anyway), given their difficulties in Lebanon in 2006, and given the fact that the IDF is ill-suited to stray too far from Israeli territory. They have robust airstrike capabilities, but as the US campaign in Afghanistan has showed, air-power can only take you so far.

In terms of US interests, any type of kinetic engagement would put the kibosh on the nascent economic recovery at home and in Europe. And with regards to our military materiel and personnel, we just don't have the manpower or assets to pacify the region, should things spiral out of control. The worst case scenario would obviously be a complete mess, but I can't get past the thought that we would probably end up needing to send troops back to (or through) Iraq, and that would be the mother of all sick and twisted absurdities.

If it was up to Obama, I would feel fairly certain that military action would be a no-go. The problem is that it's not up to him. The US, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. are all keying on the Israelis.
Jan. 25, 2012 at 11:14 a.m.RECOMMENDED13

ScientellaPalo Alto
What happened to the rule of law. When Teller died here on Stanford Campus it was from natural causes. No one wanted to buy his house. Bad Karma. However this lackey of the military industrial complex died from natural causes.

Exjudicial assassinations are barbaric. And especially coming from a country, Israel, who actually HAS nukes not just threatening to get them.

Shame on all those who consider starting world war three on the grounds of racist land grab!

some have spoken, have the others learned?

2011-12-28T01:32:00.000-08:00

NYTimes OP-ED:

Mr. Paul’s Discredited Campaign

Ron Paul long ago disqualified himself for the presidency by peddling claptrap proposals like abolishing the Federal Reserve, returning to the gold standard, cutting a third of the federal budget and all foreign aid and opposing the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Now, making things worse, he has failed to convincingly repudiate racist remarks that were published under his name for years — or the enthusiastic support he is getting from racist groups.

Mr. Paul, a Republican congressman from Texas who is doing particularly well in Iowa’s precaucus polls, published several newsletters in the ’80s and ’90s with names like the Ron Paul Survival Report and the Ron Paul Political Report. The newsletters interspersed libertarian political and investment commentary with racial bigotry, anti-Semitism and far-right paranoia.

Among other offensive statements, the newsletters said that 95 percent of Washington’s black males were criminals, and they described the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s birthday as “Hate Whitey Day.” One 1993 article appeared under a headline lamenting the country’s “disappearing white majority.” Other articles suggested that the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, was responsible for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, praised the Louisiana racist David Duke and accused some gay men with AIDS of deliberately spreading the disease, “perhaps out of a pathological hatred.”

A direct-mail ad for the newsletters from around 1993 warned of a “coming race war in our big cities” and said there was a “federal-homosexual cover-up” to suppress the impact of AIDS.

Mr. Paul, who, beginning in 2008, has disavowed the articles and their ideas, now says that most of them were written by others and that he was unaware of their content. Even if that were the case, it suggests a stupendous level of negligence that should force a reconsideration by anyone considering entrusting him with the White House.

When the newsletters first became an issue during his Congressional campaigns in the 1990s, however, he did not deny writing some of them or knowing about them.

Mr. Paul has never given a full and detailed accounting of who wrote the newsletters and what his role was in overseeing their publication. It’s especially important that he do so immediately. Those writings have certainly not been forgotten by white supremacist and militia groups that are promoting his candidacy in Iowa and in New Hampshire.

The Times reported on Sunday that dozens of members of the white nationalist Web site Stormfront are volunteering for the Paul campaign, along with far-right militias, survivalists and anti-Zionist groups. Don Black, the Stormfront director, said his members were drawn to Mr. Paul by the newsletters and his positions against immigration and the Fed (run by Jews, Mr. Black said), even if Mr. Paul were not himself a white nationalist.

Mr. Paul, saying he still hopes to “convert” these supporters to his views, has refused to disavow them or to chase them out of his campaign. If he does not do so, he will leave a lasting stain on his candidacy, on the libertarian movement and, very possibly, on the Iowa caucuses.

business talk vs. busiiness sense

2011-12-10T14:06:00.000-08:00

What Is Business Waiting For?
By JOE NOCERA

Our current government isn’t going to create jobs, so it’s up to business to do it.

_____________________________
Marie Burns
Fort Myers, Florida

There's a reason your scenario won't happen, and it has nothing to do with fear of going first. It centers on greed, but it's a little more complicated. And not surprisingly, Congressional Republicans figure into the reason business won't be "altruistic" enough to increase the American labor force.

Warren Buffett made a compelling case in yesterday's Times for raising taxes on the rich. That, of course, includes the corporate rich. He pointed out that when taxes on investments were much higher, investors still invested and corporations were big jobs producers.

So why not now? Yves Smith, writing in Salon, notes that what corporate management really wants is "a high degree of certainty in their own profits and pay. Rather than earn their returns the old fashioned way, by serving customers well, by innovating, by expanding into new markets, their 'certainty' amounts to being paid handsomely for doing things that carry no risk."

So -- in the World According to Marie -- where does corporate management get that "certainty" that profits -- and their own pay -- will increase? From Republicans in Congress. A corporation's small investment in lobbyists will yield some fabulous tax breaks. Tax cuts mean higher profits -- profits gained with very little outlay, and comparatively little risk.

Thus, not only do lower corporate taxes not create jobs, as you say, the probability of Republicans bestowing tax breaks on corporations is actually a disincentive to jobs creation. Developing, making & marketing new products is a big risk -- an unknown unknown. Lobbying Congress is a cheap corporate investment that will yield the same profits with very little effort & very little risk. Congressional Republicans are clamoring to comply.

As long as Republicans and ConservaDems rule, don't expect corporate management to put Americans to work. Congress keeps telling them there's an easier way to make a buck.

The Constant Weader at www.RealityChex.com

John Farrish
Lafayette, LA

It is to laugh. Surely you jest.

The quest for immediate gratification in the form of short term profits has been institutionalized. If some company were to announce it will be foregoing short term profits for the purpose of putting people back to work, the stock value would tank, stockholders would revolt, and company officers would wave their seven figure salaries goodbye.

Anyway, this plan wouldn't work unless a large number of businesses bought into it, because one company hiring a few hundred employees isn't going to help sell stuff to people who don't have any money. And if other people aren't hiring along with the one, there won't be anybody to purchase the excess inventory that was just created.

The mistake you're making here, Mr. Nocera, is the same one supply siders have been making for a very long time: The economy is not supply driven; it's demand driven, and until people have money to spend, not one single "job creator" is ever going to spend a penny making anything. The way to put people to work is to put them to work. Jan Schakowsky, at least, gets this.

When I was working on my bachelor's degree in business administration they taught us about stakeholders. The stakeholders in a business, we were taught, used to be the company's stockholders alone, but that was no longer the case. My professors told me we lived in a much more enlightened society in which not just stockholders, but employees, customers, and the communities in which companies were located were all seen to have a legitimate stake in a company's performance, and managers were ethically bound to serve them all.

My professors lied to me. No such sense of obligation exists, not to employees, not to customers, and not to communities. Certainly not among corporate boards sitting on record piles of cash; their only sense of responsibility is to their own bank accounts. And if what has happened over the last 30 years isn't enough to convince you, then nothing ever will.

Morton Kurzweil
Margate, Florida

Germany has a safety net if universal health care, education, and unemployment income. The investment in workers in a country that has a favorable trade balance, that doesn't use cheap foreign labor to undercut consumer income or permit cash flow to safe havens and relies on the United States to spend an unsustainable level of its budget on international defense, is a great example of where we should be economically - except that our profligacy and uncontrolled "free trade" has been the cause of worldwide recession.
We do not need a smaller government. Our problem is small minds fixated upon the myth of American Christian Dominion, a belief in the manifest destiny of America to lead the world to a new social and moral
order.
That is the Tea Party agenda, a cheap knock off of nineteenth century Western empire building,
We are confused by those who insist that corporations are people with the people who are the We in "We the People". We are confused by those who suggest that morality requires a religious basis. We are confused by those who speak of human rights as they are defined by some religious extremist group.
We need to regain our secular balance if we are to have a government responsible to all the people all of the time.
Economic theories benefit those who would control an economy. Political theories in a secular democracy should respond to the needs of all.

DonB
Reno, NV

Why should we expect business to hire people they don't need?

As a businessman who is not hiring, I can only ask the above. The problem is simply lack of demand for goods and services. Period. It has been clearly documented that the American people have lost something on the order of $7.38 trillion in wealth since 2008. This is the position of the middle class, which heretofore represented 70% of the GDP:

(1) Their houses (their principal asset) are still losing value,

(2) they're not too sure they'll have the same job paying the same wages next year, and

(3) their level of debt is still very high, particularly given (1) and (2).

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Obama needs to buckle down, do a little studying, then come back with his silver tongue, explain clearly what has befallen the middle class over the past 35 years (as Robert Reich has done) and sell infrastructure projects to kick this place into gear. If the repubs don't go along, nail them to the wall with facts, over and over and over again until the history has sunk in.

cbi
Pennsylvania

Joe - I ran a company for 25 years. We had good years and years not so good. We weathered 3 recessions and in all those years I only had to let one person go (out of a staff of 40) because of the economy or product demand. How did we survive? First, in bad years, none of us got raises. As the CEO, I had the very same benefits that my employees had. I received no special perks, got no golden parachute from our board and traveled in coach (150,000 miles per year on average). I set up a pension program for employees that they did not have to put a penny in, but they knew was in lieu of a slightly larger salary. In my 25 years only two employees left the company even though they had better offers. They liked what we did, how we did, and were committed to making it work.

We did put people first. Our employees and our customers. In good years we put the money back into the business, not into bonuses or hiring unneeded staff. We expanded as we saw opportunity and found that recessions created opportunities as our competitors fell by the wayside because of their extensive over-borrowing and greed during their good times.

Yes, we were a small business, but all the Fortune 500 companies in our region learned lessons from us. In fact, at a local meeting of business executives back in 2001, I sat next to the CEOs of three Fortune 500 companies. They were asking me how we kept profitable during those tough times. I said just look out the door. My 8 year old car was parked in a spot next to the three limos with drivers waiting to take these "titans of industry" back the three or four miles to their isolated headquarters. The looked at me with glazed eyes. They didn't get it. And most of the leaders of our biggest companies still don't get it.

Satisfied customers create more business. Respecting employees and creating a level playing field spawns creativity. And ultimately that creates jobs and growth, no matter how small or big the company.

G. Morris
NY and NJ

US corporations are still tied to the Jack Welch dictums:

Keep Full Time Employees to a absolute minimum,

Create a two-tier employee structure with management paid mostly in stock options,

Even our universities have embraced this short-sighted mandate with over 70% of college students now being taught by temps (adjuncts) and the dream of tenure thrown over-board. The average age of a tenured professor is now 55; they shoud be put on the endangered list. They only get to work if their courses are filled by cash-carrying students.

Productivity is high, wages are low and corporate profits are massive. And the income paradigm of our country looks like a template for a Banana Republic.

My children and their spouses work 80 hours a week while some of their friends are either unemployed or waiting tables. They are all well-educated, highly skilled and under utilized by a management class that is addicted to short-term movements in stock prices. Jack Welch's management philosophy only works in the short -term which is now behind us.

Jerry Kriss
Baltimore, MD

Many of the writers above have noted the fallacy in Mr. Nocera's suggestion---that U.S. businesses would voluntarily create jobs in the absence of any increased demand. It's the same fallacy promulgated by the supply-side economists. Our economy is demand driven, and employers won't hire until there is increased demand. That's why they'r sitting on hoards of cash.

In situations like this, the only entity that increase demand is the government. Increased government spending puts more money in people's pockets that they can spend, and demand goes up. How do we pay for that? Increasing taxes! If businesses won't spend the hoarded cash (much of it accumulated from the Bush tax cuts), then the government should. Increased capital gains taxes and taxes on corporate dividends will actually *increase* job creation by business. The higher tax gives them an incentive to put their money back into the business. While hiring workers immediately is not a good idea, plowing that money into refurbished equipment, new equipment, and improved facilities is an investment in the future that will pay off when demand returns. Companies avoid taxes then because that moneyt has turned into a business expense. This purchasing in upgrades also increases demand and stimulates the economy. With higher tax rates, hiring more employees actually will cost a business *less* in net income. The taxed profit has been turned into a business expense.

The evidence for all this is quite clear in the economic record. The economy always boomed when marginal tax rates and taxes on dividends and capital gains were higher, during the Eisenhower era and the Clinton presidency. We should be pushing for higher taxes in these areas now to boost the economy.

John F. McBride
Seattle, WA

Growing up through the Korean War and Cold War years, then Vietnam, I assumed the truth of the constant assertion of living in America: that America is superior and because it is superior everyone wants to live here.

But the decades have gone by and I was disillusioned with time. America has some superior qualities, but isn't carte blanche superior. There are other methods in the world that work as well, and in many cases that work better.

Germany's societal understanding about jobs and employment is one. The much lower cost of health care in other nations and yet equal and even superior care is another.

A truth about America is that we in some large minority, even at times a majority, prefer belief, believing what America is, to the truth.

Sadly our Republican Party in general, and the Tea Party specifically, our extreme right conservatism, refuses to accept that it can learn from others and to insist that even if an idea has been tried time and again, during the Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II years, and failed, it will work. It has to work.

Maybe you're right Mr. Nocera, and corporations will voluntarily take on solving our employment problem. But I don't believe it. That's not happened in this nation before because our business model prefers strict capitalism and I know it. I'd have be as insane, in trusting after all this time that corporations can be trusted this first time to take this one as Republicans are in asserting that this time supply side and cutting spending in a severe contraction will work even though it never has before in the history of economics.

I'm not that crazy. Once burned, in my case, twice shy.

dickginnold
San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas, Mexico

Great article, Joe. I trained as an economist in the l950s when 'enlightened self interest' was the key word and stocks traded in the 5/10 PE range. Corporate CEOs didn't get rich. There might have been a few $1 to 2M CEOS, but most made a couple hundred thousand. To get through school for a couple years I piled pigs and poured metal for Kaiser Aluminum. I could earn $7,000 with overtime. Henry Kaiser, the CEO got about $200K, 30 times my wage. Our union was respected. Now US CEOs make 10s of millions, maybe up to 100M,, or 100s of times worker salaries,while their corporations are breaking unions, cutting benefits, laying off people, paying off Congressional represenatives and frequently losing money.

In 2008 I visited my relatives in Germany and travelled the country from Berlin to Hamburg. Amazing. Corporate boards have union reps and there is a social compact to share sacrifice, the origin of the hours reduction policy to reduce unemployment.

The country and its flourishing economy puts us to shame, full of windpower and several kinds of fast, modern transit, in its infrastructure, in the mixture of nationalities, social benefits and dignity of workers. I saw huge numbers of export containers in Hamburg, which exports 10M containers a year, mostly filled with industrial goods. During my visit, a Berlin paper had a spread on the top CEO salaries in Germany, major companies like Lufthansa, BMW. I don't believe there was a one above 1 to 3 M Euros,around 40 times the worker earnings, like we had it 60 years ago. They learned democratic capitalism, while the US was taken over by Wall Street and corporate rapists.

Jumper
South Carolina

Twenty-five years ago a young associate professor of business I knew relentlessly repeated to everyone who'd listen a key difference between Japanese managers and U.S. managers. Japanese managers could recite their market share but seldom knew their return on investment (ROI.) U.S. managers could recite their ROI but seldom knew their market share.

This same associate professor condemned the U.S. quarterly-report fixation. It was one of many indicators but it led U.S. investors to want every quarter to be better than the last. Simple algebra with exponents shows that folly.

Today, that former associate professor is Chair of the Department with no shortage of students.

An important question will be how the companies will judge the success of their efforts. Are they willing to be patient? Are workers willing to start at a lower salary? Are corporations willing to raise the pay as profits increase? Some may bring up unions. Only 6.9% of the U.S. private sector workforce is in unions.

You mention the Germans, but the Japanese also have a practice of setting aside money to keep workers on the job. The work may involve a lot of equipment and building maintenance but they are kept employed.

What's also going on in Japan and Germany is that fear is minimized in the workplace. When workplace fear is minimized, productivity increases. People pay attention to productivity and creativity rather than worrying about how to word their resume, or worrying about what they need to ask HR. They discuss coordinating efficiency or product improvement rather than discussing the latest company rumors.

In early 1914, at the height of a two year recession, Henry Ford doubled the daily wage to $5.00. He also cut the work day to eight hours. He was able to keep workers on the job and he was able to run three shifts. Car prices dropped.

Those were benefits to his corporation but those changes also had positive impact on American prosperity and standard of living in general.

The UK: 'Isolated' vs. 'Insulated'

2011-12-09T19:42:00.000-08:00

LONDON — When he rejected a new European accord on Friday that would bind the continent ever closer, Prime Minister David Cameron seemingly sacrificed Britain’s place in Europe to preserve the pre-eminence of the City, London’s financial district. The question now is whether his stance will someday seem justified, even prescient.

MFF Frankfurt, Germany

I'm an American, living in Germany for the past 3 years, and with close family in the UK. I travel constantly throughout the EU as well as to England--and all I can say is: the problem is Britain, not Europe. England has had post WWII the most bizarre attachment to the US and all things American, a sort of hero worship that is at times even embarrassing to witness.

As the last UK elections have shown, the Brits are much more aligned to Wall Street and Big Money than to core European values like a solid welfare state and strict regulation of markets. They don't feel European and I've met few Europeans who feel England is part of Europe, either. Traveling in the EU is simple and easy--entering Germany is the easiest, most stress-free country entry I ever experience, but the same cannot be said for the UK.

Part of it is, of course, a result of being an island.

All I can say is: I feel sorry for the regular British folk, duped by their unscrupulous politicians so that they never get to understand how much more important is their link to their own continent rather than the one across the pond.

Al Minneapolis

This just lays bare the fact that the UK government, like its US counterpart, is a creature of the big banks. It also exposes the folly of letting your industrial and manufacturing sector shrivel up in the hope that the financial sector shall takeover as the bedrock of your economy.

The financial sector does not create capital, it only funnels them from those who have spare capital to those who need more of it. New York and London became the dominant financial centers when the UK and the US had the largest, and wealthiest industrial and manufacturing sectors in the world and thus generated the most wealth and capital. In fact London's dominance is now but a vestige of their long dissipated industrial might.

I can very well imagine Merkel thinking "our country's industry and manufacturing is much larger than the UK's, why should we grant special privileges to the UK's financial sector to the detriment of my own country's financial sector when our economy is a much bigger generator of capital than the UK and it's shrunken industrial base? It's not our fault that the UK pursued policies that were harmful to their industry."

campbell spain

As a British citizen living in Spain I am saddened by David Cameron.Britain had the chance to reform the City after the scandals of 2008 but a Tory Government has too many "ties" to the City to act. The City cost UK taxpayers a fortune but wave a few Union Jacks around and everything is forgotten. A mistake of historical proportions has been made.

N P Johnson Sheffield, England

I feel rather disappointed by this country's negative attitude. Look at a map. It's part of Europe. Ok there's 21 miles of water. So what? Hawaii's part of the USA, as is Manhattan. Being an island's nothing to do with it. Ireland, Malta, and Cyprus are all islands and happy to be in the EU. We had an Empire? So did France, Spain, Portugal, Holland? We won the war? Yes but that finished 66 years ago. Not everybody in England is Eurosceptic. It tends to be more the case in the prosperous Home Counties in the south of England around London, where the Conservatives have their power base. Further north the Tories are much less popular, especially in the cities. Labour/LibDems are generally more pro-European. The problem in England is the press. Rabidly Europhobic tabloid papers print whatever suits their point of view, and which is not necessarily accurate. How can the public make a decision in a referendum without being given both sides of the argument and all of the true facts?

robert iacobacci annapolis, md

Since their tentative entry into the EU, Briton has shown their half hearted faith in the institution and its goals. Content to reap the benefits but unwilling to share the burdens that are part of a full fledged commitment. Perhaps this is a good time for the E.U to ask for a decision. The loss of England at this point would do little harm and the British can discover if they perhaps need Europe more then it needs them.

ance Lee Pacific Palisades, California

England's decision - the Conservative party hardly exists in Scotland - is self-destructive. Cameron has played to his party's right wing, a minority of his party, no doubt hoping this will defuse them and let him get on with managing the economic crisis. But it is a defining vote, and he has made himself one of those rightwingers by doing so. If he is comfortable there, he should feel pleased.

The price is high. England now will not participate In whatever measures the other 17 - 26 EU countries take to secure the euro. It will not be able to protect The City, its Wall Street, from whatever body arises by treaty among these states. It will be an outsider. It cannot participate in the shape new European institutions take, who runs them, and how they are run. It will have no membership on its bodies, and no special understandings to protect its interests. It has marginalized itself.

And if, an 'if' of some controversy, a new euro-centered 'national' state arises successfully, the road to further European integration will have been opened, without England. In such a situation, faced by an entity with a far larger population and economy, it can hardly think its financial prominence can continue or be defended.

This decision plays only to a fraction of its internal politics, on whose members the sun never sets in their eyes, even amid their darkness. And it bares a disingenuous political class unwilling to face or speak the truth.

joe new york

The really important and, so far, un-asked question is why Britain insisted its financial institutions be exempt from any jointly agreed upon financial regulations. I'll tell you why. Because the problem is not Greece, or Italy, or Spain, or Ireland, or Portugal or Germany. The problem is in England and the United States. Those two countries are the origin of the speculation that caused a global financial contagion and remain the center of a cancerous derivatives market that has, WITHOUT MEDIA ATTENTION, exploded again this year to over $707 trillion dollars, breaking the record it set in mid-2008, just before the crash.
You think the United States would cede control over its financial institution regulatory framework to an international organization? Uh-huh. Not in a million years. The belly of that beast is too ugly. Britain has extraordinarily lax regulations with respect to leveraged re-hypothication of borrowed capital. That's why it became very attractive to companies like A.I.G. and M.F. Global. You think they want to let someone else lift the curtain on that?
When the mother of all margin calls occurs and the global debt titanic goes down, and the global derivative pyramid scheme the U.S. and Britain built collapses, it will be every man for himself.

Dean Vantari Atlanta, GA

The City vs the People, that is the crux of the matter here. There is a disconnect between the financial sector and the real economy of Europe. All the hand wringing about defaults are the premise of investment bankers, not the People of Europe. It may actually be healthy to maintain a fire wall to isolate the financial speculators in the City, and the Street, from further poisoning the real economy, where real goods and services are exchanged, not digital representations swapped for intangibles. Wealth is not created in any speculative "market", it is created by the work and innovation of real human beings.

W. van Tuinen The Netherlands

Why does every American news article I read talk about 'huge rifts' and 'deep divides'? There are no rifts. There is Britain on one side and everybody else on the other. And Britain matters much less to Europe than they would like and American analysts seem to believe.

Relax.

My government agrees with the changes now on the table and so do I.
I see no looming totalitarianism but an organisation that:
- has resulted in a peace so fundamental that the idea of war between countries in the EU is now basically unimaginable.
- introduced a common currency and open borders, which have allowed all EU citizens to travel all over the continent and become more open-minded and multi-cultural. Even with the financial troubles of the last several years, I myself have found a job in Ireland and work there now without any political hassle.
- provided an economic growth and integration that allows me to live in the luxury I do today.
- has introduced rules and regulations binding all over Europe that safeguard the quality of the food we eat and the appliances we use, where single governments were too slow or corrupt to do this.
- is now slowly but surely working to change a financial system that launched the whole world into a depression. And as far as I can see, the EU is the only government even attempting this.

I am pro-EU and have full confidence in the ability of the EU.

friedmann Paris

The policy of the UK towards Europe is suicidal. Imperial England ruling the open seas is no more. Its special relationship with the US is mostly a servile relationship. Moreover, it is in the US national interest to chose the stronger side (a UE led by Germany) over a country in decline, however important its past tole in world history. Surely, the other EU counties are also declining. But, they seem to have understood that the only way to leverage their weak individual power is through a united, and strong Europe. This involves pooling together some of their sovereign rights of the past to build a novel political entity, the foundation of which is what Jürgen Habermas calls “constitutional patriotism” . Even, Cameron’s belief that he is protecting the City by refusing to sign is probably wrong. I would not be surprised that in the not too distant future, Frankfurt will take business away from London. Of course, this implies the Euro rescue plan works.

Mick Boston

Let’s talk about the democracy deficit. Its a little rich of London to complain about the EU as composed of bunch of undemocratic, unaccountable, and top down faceless bureaucrats and cozy political appointees.
When one considers that the majority of the Britain’s conservative government is elected under a first past the post system and is almost entirely composed of members from southern England. This from a party that is consistently opposed to devolution of powers to the constituent nations of the UK and is adamantly opposed to any type of proportional representation voting system as such suspiciously foreign even though it is in use in parts of the UK. They can fly their St. George’s flag all they want but it is abundantly clear that the UK is run for and by the benefit of the "City". Just ask any Glaswegian, Cardiffian, Manchurian, or Liverpudlian what they think of "London" and where their once prized industries have gone.

-neal02- Germany

I am writing from Germany and the first thing I did after get up from bed was looking for my socks. I do not want to dominate the British nor march into Czechoslovakia.

so far I have heard no constructive proposal of the british but who wants a say, must contribute. That talks about the failure of the euro countrie sucks. The EU has established a single market across the territory of all its members. A monetary union, the eurozone, using a single currency comprises In 2010 the EU generated an estimated 26% (16.242 billion international dollars share of the global gross domestic product making it the largest economy in the world. It is the largest exporter,the largest importer of goods and services, and the biggest trading partner to several large countries such as China, India,and the United States. The euro is designed to help build a single market by, for example: easing travel of citizens and goods, eliminating exchange rate problems, providing price transparency, creating a single financial market, price stability and low interest rates, and providing a currency used internationally and protected against shocks by the large amount of internal trade within the eurozone.

If the Britons withdrawal from the EU they will not participate in this market.
Surely the Euro will not collapse even if many would like.

Patrick Frankfurt, Germany

To all Brits and Americans hailing Mr. Cameron as a fighter for democracy and liberty.

You are kidding yourselves if you tell me the "NO" from Mr. Cameron is in first place the voice of the British people but the will of the so much elected City of London.

British people you are just a supporting side-kick.

Emmanuel New York, NY, USA

The Brits. Masters of deception...but this time they went too far. On this one I'd rather bet my future with no nonsense Germany than follow the foggy treacherous corrupt ways of Wall Street and Old England banksters. Mr Cameron, you are dead wrong!

Pink-er-ology from the left bank of Charles River

2011-12-06T20:01:00.000-08:00

Human Nature’s Pathologist
By CARL ZIMMER
In his latest book, Steven Pinker, a leading advocate of evolutionary psychology, says our brains have produced a far less violent world.

___________________________________________

Frank Stanton
Campbell, Ca.

I can live with the idea of the evolution of the brain, and the amount of physical violence may have gone down statistically with time. However, can't one argue that these violent activities have been replaced by predatory practices one sees in downsizing of jobs, exporting jobs to Third World and, in turn, exploiting the poor to a form of near involuntary servitude or even slavery in those countries? In other words, preying upon the weak has changed from cutting off noses to holding people's welfare in one's hands. To some, having one's life destroyed through economic actions, could equate to a long, slow death. In both cases, the perpetrators hold the exploited as having no real value and so act as though the exploited are not even fellow humans. Yes, the mind of some have evolved, but the old cruelties have been replaced by a different kind of cruelty. Of course, by its definition, that is evolution. Maybe the OWS and 99% movement(s) are about an evolved response to the historical cruelties of our time.

Lee
Moosehead Lake

What about the violence against animals at factory farms and the violence of humans against nature. Both have become more widespread and efficient.

Kathleen Fisher
Amherst, MA

I am curious how Mr. Pinker describes what has gone on in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last ten years. I wonder what he thinks of the covert operations in Iran and Pakistan are about. What does he think of the details of rendition. How about Bagram? How about Guantanamo?

ekeizer4
Oregon

There should be a rule against writing about someone who has already been the subject of 1001 articles -- most of which say the exact same things. Regardless of the merits of Mr. Pinker's theories, I am thoroughly sick of hearing about him. There's hardly a magazine or newspaper that has not spilled a potful of ink over his new book, and judging from this profile, there is simply nothing new left to say. So many scientific ideas and non-fiction books barely get a glance from the media. It would be wonderful if we could end this myopic focus on just a couple of authors and spread the wealth around a little more. At some point, publicity is self-defeating: I have read so much about Mr. Pinker and his theory of violence that I have absolutely no desire to buy his book. Why bother, when the media has essentially read it, digested it, and repeated it ad nausea for me?

GrumpaT
Sequim WA

Hamlet said it best:

Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought;
And enterprises of great pith and moment,
With this regard, their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.

Our natures haven't changed. We're as violent and cruel as we ever were. We're just increasingly hemmed in by our civilizing. Now instead of being overtly beastly, we wallow in bestial entertainments and hoard guns. We suffer the miseries of our stifled anger...and just vote no.

Alan
Chicago, IL

"'It’s psychologically astute, given the massive amount of self-serving biases,' he said." And further, "If you want peace, understand psychology."

I wonder if Prof. Pinker would have come to the same conclusions if he had written his book in Kabul or Congo, rather than Cape Cod and Cambridge. Call it the fallacy of "immediacy" or of "near/far" or just "us and them", although as a psychologist Prof. Pinker would be able to provide the proper scientific term for it.

One could equally well argue that the modern state-upon-state violence is far more lethal than older tribe-upon-tribe one, although modern states have mastered the art of lofty justificatory rhetoric to a far greater extent, through great - perhaps evolutionary - refinements in the arts of the technicians of the word such as Prof. Pinker himself. If there is evolution then, it is still in Prof. Pinker's old specialty, language, which can spin its magical web even around most gruesome acts of violence. Prof. Pinker should look further into linguistic bases of civilization. He would then be able to see the primary difference between violence perpetrated by the Congolese and by the Americans, to take just two random examples.

equality of chances? the brightest choose engineering? meritocracy instead of dynasty?

2011-11-29T09:06:00.000-08:00

America’s meritocratic, watchdog news media

By Glenn Greenwald

In this Feb. 9, 2011 photo, Chelsea Clinton attends amfAR's annual New York Gala at Cipriani Wall Street in New York. (AP Photo/Evan Agostini) (Credit: AP)

(updated below)
New York Times, July 31, 2008:

Business Insider, August 31, 2009:

New York Times, today:

I really don’t understand what those angry, lazy losers in the Occupy movement are so upset about. America is a meritocracy; if you work hard and prove your skills, you get ahead. The winners deserve what they have because they have earned it. And when all else fails, we have a media filled with insurgent outsiders who will be relentless watchdogs over those in power because that’s what our media outlets are: true outsiders there to check the most powerful factions.
Even more encouragingly, we have a media that ensures that diverse views are heard; Chelsea Clinton previously worked at a $12 billion hedge fund and her former-Goldman-Sachs-banker husband earlier this year launched his own hedge fund with “two guys from Goldman,” so she brings a depth and diversity of perspetive that is sorely lacking in our news (true, CNN boldly features Erin Burnett — the former Goldman, Sachs employee and current fiancé of a top Citigroup executive — but nothing can compete with Chelsea Clinton’s rich, impressive journalism background).
Thankfully, the American Founders waged a revolution to free us from the shackles of monarchy so that we’re no longer captive to the inanities of royalty (like those silly Brits). In The Rights of Man, Thomas Paine mocked and scorned aristocracies as producing “counterfeit nobles” — those bestowed with prerogatives not because of what they’ve achieved but because of the accidental fortune of their birth — and we are thankfully free of those:

UPDATE: With so many superb young journalists being hired by NBC News based on their record of outstanding achievement, it is — I hope you will agree — understandable that I neglected to include this, from earlier this month:

We all owe our gratitude to NBC News for single-handedly correcting the shameful, long-standing exclusion from our media discourse of the views of young, journalistically accomplished heirs and heiresses to political power and great fortune; it is long overdue that former NYT Executive Editor Bill Keller, son of the CEO and Chairman of Chevron, finally be joined by the next generation.

letters from the police state

2011-11-23T07:58:00.000-08:00

Dr. O. Ralph Raymond
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33315

The most disturbing thing about this episode as captured in video footage is its casual banality, the "banality of evil," the reduction of human beings essentially to insect or vermin status. It shocks the conscience.

Blanche Batey
Florida

What is horrifying is that police, politicians, and petty administrators have learned so little and apparently believe they have the right to rule us instead of serve us.

shipwhistle
Baltimore, MD

Part of the problem is revealed by this statement: "The New York Police Department says pepper spray should be used chiefly for self-defense or to control suspects who are resisting arrest."

Ordinary Americans think "resisting arrest" involves actively fighting the arresting officer(s). In fact, passive, peaceful resistance is also considered "resisting arrest." Thus, refusing to move or going limp would make one subject to this type of "control."

This is widely quoted: "Charles J. Kelly, a former Baltimore Police Department lieutenant who wrote the department's use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a 'compliance tool' that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters.

'When you start picking up human bodies, you risk hurting them,' Kelly said. 'Bodies don't have handles on them.'

"After reviewing the video, Kelly said he observed at least two cases of 'active resistance' from protesters. In one instance, a woman pulls her arm back from an officer. In the second instance, a protester curls into a ball. Each of those actions could have warranted more force, including baton strikes and pressure-point techniques."

So we are to believe that police officers use pepper spray, which hurts and can kill people, to avoid the "risk [of] hurting them." THIS DEFINITION OF 'RESISTING ARREST' MUST CHANGE.

htg
Greensboro, NC

I'm horrified that our police forces have become so militarized and seem almost gleeful as they use their new toys on the participants in a peaceful protest. But, with that said, even I had to laugh a little as FOX news downplayed the recent sprayings, based on the argument that pepper spray was basically vegetable juice. Yeah! It's like getting sprayed with V8 juice. Yeah. Right.

Bildad the Shuhite
Arabia

I cannot believe there is not more outrage at these actions at the highest level of government. I thought it was ironic and sad that scenes from this incident were shown followed by scenes from Egypt and the Middle East and really, aside from the degree of police force not much different. If you had shown the videos with different captions it may have gone unnoticed that this was two different instances.

Having not grown up in the 60's-era I do not understand what "the man" finds so threatening about these protests. And if you can honestly say that you do not think that major corporations, banks act in many immoral, dishonest, and acted in a manner that deserves at least protest and condemnation than you have really not studied the history and growth of corporate America nor read anything beyond your 401K statement.

I own my own small business, employ people (aka job-creator), pay in inordinate amount of business taxes and vote mostly Republican but try to find the "best person" for the job.

What I feel the media and "older society" does not get about the Occupy Mvmnt is that it is not trying to have "communism". They are asking that the system not be rigged. That everyone gets a fair opportunity and that the biggest and best do not also get the most benefits.

Dave
Everywhere

As a "conservative person" who generally defers to the police in matters of public safety, I've been appalled at the actions of officials at all levels of government in regard to their dealings with the OWS movement over the past ten weeks. When you combine the reports of actions against generally non-violent protesters plus yesterday's articles in the NYT regarding the actions of the NYPD against accredited reporters and photographers, it becomes hard to differentiate between these actions and what has been going on in Egypt, Syria and other places. Surely this is not the vision of American freedom and democracy that we are trying to sell to the rest of the world?

rpg
Lakeville, Ct

Non lethal weapons?

As a question of will, rights and authority, 'might makes right', dominance and using whatever gives power to point of view will be used. Sad that this violence is still as interpersonal as bludgeoning someone with a rock lashed to a stick. I don't see much difference between this and piloting, from Virginia, a radio-controlled model plane that kills someone in the Middle east. It is just from a longer arms-length, less personal risk on the damage you're doing . . . until they get the weapon . . . or steal it. Imagine, piloting our own planes a weapons. Those thoughts have dominated our political and domestic lives since. Projectiles are intended to do damage.

Our '60's 'civil rights' experience of firehoses, rubber bullets, clubs and dogs showed us that differences of personal opinion, expressed contrary to politically motivated dominance, sometimes prevails, to an extent, at great risks and price. Any weapon can be lethal to someone with a congenital weakness or physical problem.

I think maybe the next protesters should line up the elderly and wheelchair-bound as their first line of defense. That'll make the headlines!

I always refer back to Eddie Rickenbacker who, after being a WW I flying ace, called aerial warfare 'scientific murder'.

Spraying someone in the face with pepper spray is a thinly veiled substitute.

Isobel
Ann Arbor, Mich.

The militarization of police departments across this country is inexcusable. Apparently, the police believe that their first response should be that of paramilitary enforcers as opposed to their real roles, which is that of peace officers. The aggressive, violent, and criminal response of these law enforcement agencies is a national disgrace.

Frankly, the brutal police tactics taking place at Occupy sites should be front and center on every mainstream newspaper and media site in this country. How can we spread democracy abroad when we can’t even defend it at home?

The Tea Party contingent carried open weapons to various events, spit on public officials, and spouted some pretty threatening comments yet I don't remember even one arrest. On the other hand, OWS protesters have been beaten, pepper sprayed, shot with rubber bullets, and subjected to sound cannons for simply engaging in peaceful protests - I shudder to think of the outcome should an Occupy protester show up to an event openly packing a gun.

As for cities and universities seeking to "regain control of their streets, parks, and campuses", let us not forget who really pays to build and maintain these public structures and edifices. The streets, parks, and public campuses belong to The People and they have every right to occupy them if they so choose. If we're going to deny people access, then it's time for cities and universities to find another source of funding. Since they have all the cash, maybe it's time to require that corporate America finance infrastructure construction and upkeep.

Justine
Wyoming

These police obviously never have had pepper spray in their face. They have absolutely NO idea of the power of the weapon they are carrying. Living near bears, I carry it on hikes and several times have had just a breeze of it hit me. One time I thought I'd have to go to the hospital. That cop was spraying it like a can of air freshener, which is also not how you use it. He had no idea what kind of weapon he was using. I actually used it in Yellowstone this year on a charging bison. It did a 90 degree turn immediately. That's how powerful it is. Watching that video was appalling and sickening.

The amount of police reactivity and violence, in the midst of peaceful assembly, has been shocking. It demonstrates how much our rights have eroded while we've been 'making other plans'.

Brenda
Reading PA

“we are in the age of pepper spray, not the age of real bullets.”

Tell that to the veteran who is in intensive care because of getting hit in the head with a rubber bullet in Oakland. This attempt to find something positive to say about attacking peaceful protestors in a putative democracy seems very labored.

Certainly we are in the age of bullets and bombs in our multiple wars overseas and the official rationale presented is that these unending wars are in defense of our "freedoms."

For all the billions we are spending in defense of "our freedoms" we don't seem to be getting much in return if we can't peacefully express our views as the First Amendment guarantees without getting pepper-sprayed.

ivehadit
massachusetts

My impulse, if stopped by a police officer for overspeeding, is to be as courteous and polite as possible. Do do otherwise would invite not just a higher priced ticket, but also the threat of a humiliating exercise of power (get out of the car, etc). Police have to be taught that their egos are not the determining choice in exercise of power. In other words "i wield the baton (or pepper spray), so i deserve respect and submission to my wishes" is not the message. It was clearly on display at UC Davis, an institution of higher learning, but clearly the police are not part of that culture. The students had an expectation of proportionate action, not life threatening abuse of power.

Jim T.
MA

The video that I've watched showed protesters linking arms and blocking a road. If one assumes these protesters were asked to disperse and refused, the next step would be for the police to forcibly remove. This would risk injury to both the protester and the police officer. Pepper spray is a useful tool in that is will force the protesters to disperse without risking physical harm to themselves or the officers.

Steve Bolger
New York, NY

Consent of the governed to be sprayed like insects by psychotic cops?

Yeah, you sure are doing well after 35 years of open season asset-stripping.

most people kill (themselves) for what the few consider rounding error

2011-11-21T21:10:00.000-08:00

JACK O'HANLON
SALT LAKE CITY

There has to be some form of secure regulatory control over these computer financial accounts where you can easily move around billions of dollars in a few mouse clicks and the "money" (I use the word lightly, as we're talking about numbers in a computer) is then dispersed into the so-called cloud and it's then - pick one: "lost, stolen, missing, misappropriated" or otherwise not able to be found.

I have a banker friend who told me "there is not enough printed currency in the world to cover all the cash that sits in (computerized) bank accounts."

In other words, the financial system is simply a bunch of numbers being moved from one computer network to another. Very, very scary.

So, when someone asks - "were did all that money go?"

One of the answers could be - "It was never really there."

Some folks at MF Global had access to the computers that contained the numbers that represented this missing "money." I'd be confiscating their passports right about now.

(when) will we run out of excuses for not knowing/doing?

2011-11-18T20:59:00.000-08:00

Chalmers Johnson

Audio interview March 2010 on Media Matters with Bob McChesney
Video/Audio: Chalmers Johnson on the military-industrial complex October 4–7, 2008 on The Real News with Paul Jay
Audio: Is America on the brink of destruction through imperial over-reach?
Audio interview February 2007 on Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman
Chalmers Johnson, Evil Empire, A Talk by Chalmers Johnson, DVD, 2006
Audio interview April 2004 on Behind the News with Doug Henwood
Video Interview: Decline of Empires: The Signs of Decay by Ecological Options Network

A National Intelligence Estimate on the United States by Chalmers Johnson (from Harper's Magazine)
Empire v. Democracy: Why Nemesis Is at Our Door by Chalmers Johnson
Blowback Chalmers Johnson essay from The Nation
Cold Warrior in a Strange Land Tom Engelhardt interviews Chalmers Johnson
Can We End the American Empire Before It Ends Us? By Chalmers Johnson, Tomdispatch.com. Posted May 17, 2007.
Three Good Reasons to Liquidate Our Empire by Chalmers Johnson, The Huffington Post
Chalmers Johnson vs. the Empire, Antiwar.com

back and forth, from the right of center

2011-11-07T18:51:00.000-08:00

William Gill, Esq.
Montgomery, Alabama

There is no such thing as the "99%." Never was.

Here are the real life numbers:

54% pay all federal income taxes and most of the social security and medicare taxes that subsidize the 46% who pay no federal income taxes and little SS and Medicare taxes.

The "rich" pay the highest amount of taxes already. The top 1% pay 37% of all federal income taxes. The top 5% pays nearly 50% of all federal income taxes, and the top 10% pays over 70% of all income taxes. Plus those categories of income earners pay the vast bulk of all SS and Medicare taxes that help pay for everyone else's SS and Medicare.

Here is another number: the top 20% of income earners pay 80% of all federal taxes. 80%!

Hence, the whole OWS anarchist and envious socialist arguments are way off base. However, if they would simply come out and say raise the federal income tax on that 1% (or even top 2 or 3%) a total of an additional 5%, there would probably be no objection for wage earners in those categories. But the OWS anarchists and Marxists do not seem to be interested in that. They seem to have a much more far ranging agenda of a dark nature.

How about some more real numbers other than the fact that 46% are ungrateful that 54% support the entire country at the federal level:

40% of American chldren are born out of wedlock and this is the #1 cause of poverty in America. 72% black, 50% hispanic and 30% white are the sad illegitimacy numbers, and with the "free love" with no responsibility society America has these numbers are only increasing.

The divore rate is over 50% for first marriages and that is the #2 cause of poverty in America. Marital commitment means nothing anymore.

So, to the OWS crowd and their sympathizers, promoters and fellow travelors, let these REAL numbers sink in.

*******
Disclaimer: I am not one of the "rich". I am just a reporter of historical facts. Do with them what ye will.

Michael Smith
New York, NY

To William Gill, Esq. from Montgomery Alabama: the only figures you left out were the percentage of the national wealth held by the top 1%, and how dramatically their wealth has increased over the last 20 years, and how their taxes, as a percentage of income, have dramatically decreased over the last 20 years.

If you are not one of the "rich", as you claim, but you nevertheless go around citing meaningless statistics about the amount of taxes paid by billionaires as opposed to amount paid by minimum wage workers, you are either a fool or a con-man. The facts that you selectively site are obviously set forth as a bogus attempt to defend the super rich and blame the poor for the sorry state that we find ourselves in this country.

You are either a fraud and are writing as a shill for the rich, or you are just a fool; my guess is the former. Such tactics may fly in Alabama newspapers, but not in the New York Times. So take your "historical facts" and shove them up your phony ye-know-what.

William Gill, Esq.
Montgomery, Alabama

To Michael Smith of New York, New York: nice ad hominem abusive. It is typical of liberal socialists and atheists like yourself to engage in anonymous online personal attacks and regional bigotry instead of just focusing on facts and logic. Not to mention spineless and cowardly. Truth hurts doesn't it Mr. Smith?

As far as the 1% goes, I do not covet them. As a matter of fact the Holy Scriptures have a commandment: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's property. And as far as the wealth gap, as anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge and understanding of recent world history knows, it is because of globalism and the technological revolution that that 1% has become so rich, and they have created most of the jobs in the process and made everyone's live's better as a result. Again, I don't covet them. And I am sure they would not object to a reasonable tax increase. I notice you didn't even have the intellectual integrity of stating what amount of increase YOU are proposing for them. And you are futher dishonest about what amount of *income* taxes "minimum wage workers" are paying - virtually nothing with all the deductions and tax credits. They are part of the 46% who pay no federal income taxes.

You are a fool and a schill for anarchists, socialists and Marxists Mr. Smith. Plain and simple. Truth hurts and numbers don't lie.

Rebecca
Harlem

As for William Gill, Esq., you seem to have less faith in capitalism than the OWS protesters do: they believe that our economic system can generate profit and productivity AND ensure a basically acceptable standard of living for everyone who lives in it, whereas you seem to be saying that the best we can hope for is to provide solely for the rich, shrugging and shaking our heads as the innocent children of whose birth conditions you disapprove sink into poverty through no fault of their own. I'm not willing to give up that easily.

William Gill, Esq.
Montgomery, Alabama

Rebecca, it is not the responsibility of people - or the government via forced redistribution of the wealth "to provide" for some kind of mythical "standard of living" for some other group of people. To think so is what is called socialism. Socialism is antithetical to Americanism.

Now, having said that, there undoubtedly ARE all kinds of corporate abuses that need to be fixed, but not in the way anarchists and socialists that permeate the OWS are arguing for. I am going to surprise you and the rest of the NYTs readership who are mainly of the "liberal" persuasion: I have enough centrist in me and life experience to know that all businesses, ESPECIALLY the finanical industry need some amount of regulation. I have said it here and I say it all the time over at the WSJ: U.S. businesses need less regulation BUT the financial industry needs MORE regulation. I continously argue for such things as follows:

1. Defend Sarbanes-Oxley.

2. Defend Dodd-Frank.

3. Ban financial derivatives.

4. Ban leveraged ETFs.

5. Require at least 50% or more of inverstors own money
with respect to commodities futures (significantly increase "margin" requirements).

7. Ban high frequency trading.

8. Impose a standard of true *fiduciary* duty on all investment brokers/dealers for their customers.

9. Reinstate Glass-Steagall to completely separate commercial and investment banking and insurance and brokerage/investment houses, and I mean not even allowing a common parent corp. whatsoever.

10. This one is tricky, but clearly many of the Fortune 500 companies have a racket going on the last 20 years whereby there is massive overlap of Boards and Executives and they are all taking care of each other thru ridiculous and exorbitant compensation packages (typically disguised as "stock option", and golden parachute severance deals). This is really the responsibility of Shareholders, but something has to be done.

Things all people should agree on, whatever persuasion.

Real Men Liberate Invade Iran

2011-11-07T18:37:00.000-08:00

After trying our hand at smaller targets, it's time we took it up to the next level: Iran. Never mind that none of our liberation missions has been anywhere near accomplished, for the objective is to keep things in motion so that the 99% remain dazed and confused about the economy and any other matter of real concern. Let's hear from the 99%:

SA
Houston, TX

I’m concerned that the impending I.A.E.A. report on Iran’s alleged advances in her nuclear program may not be strictly professional and fair. And it’s because, as this article states, “the director of the agency, Yukia Amano,” secretly visited “the White House 11 days ago to meet top officials of the National Security Council about the coming report ….”

Is it customary for the head of the I.A.E.A. to meet secretly with “top officials of the National Security Council” of each of the member states of the I.A.E.A. Board to discuss a coming report?

The United States, Israel and Europe provided some of the information used for the impending report. These are the same countries which have been leading the crusade to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. A conflict of interest is obvious.

An inconvenient truth is that the US has the unhealthy habit of corrupting international bodies and their officials. The case for this harsh but unavoidable observation is laid out in the article, “Special Relationship,” by Colum Lynch, in the April 18, 2011, issue of Foreign Policy (www.foreignpolicy.com

“In the aftermath of Israel’s 2008-2009 intervention into the Gaza Strip, Susan E. Rice, the U. S. ambassador to the United Nations, led a vigorous campaign to stymie an independent U. N. investigation into possible war crimes, while using the prospect of such a probe as leverage to pressure Israel to participate in a U. S.-backed Middle East peace process….”

And the “United States and Israel were granted privileged access to highly sensitive internal U.N. deliberations on an “independent” U.N. board of inquiry into the Gaza war, raising questions about the independence of the process.”

Obviously, the U. S. tampered with the integrity of the U. N. Secretariat and a supposedly “independent” U. N. investigation.

Ms. Rice also warned the president of the ICC that an investigation into alleged Israeli war crimes could damage its standing with the United States

The U.S. also colluded with Israel in ultimately stopping the original investigation that was ordered by U.N. Security Council resolution 1405 into alleged Israeli misconduct during her intervention in Jenin, the West Bank.

ALL nations must abide by international laws. When any country habitually obstructs justice, we have a duty to yell “STOP!” As Charles Peguy, the French philosopher, noted, “He who does not bellow the truth, when he knows the truth, makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers.”

The I.A.E.A. should do its job without the heavy-handed interference of outside interests.

Bill Messina
NY

Who the heck are we to demand that other countries stop their nuclear weapon strategy?

If we don't give up ours, why should they have to give up their research.

Since any country that has a nuclear capability is immune from our "shock and awe" tactics (Russia, China, North Korea, Pakistan), why wouldn't these countries try to develop doomsday weapons to protect themselves against us?

Considering that we could totally destroy any country, that would dare send a nuclear weapon our way, none of them would dare take an offensive action against us.

What are we doing, here, attempting to build up a consensus to repeat our foolhardy efforts in Iraq against the Iranian people?

Citizens! Beware! The military industrial complex is still scheming.

MACV in DaNang
Castro Valley, CA

So What!. Iran deserves and reserves the right to acquire Nuclear Weapons. Who knows what country may try and invade (Israel, America) or bomb their people. A NUKE keeps everyone on their toes and in-their-place. Remember in 1953 The democratically elected government of Iran was overthrown by the CIA and Britain's MI6. This led to the Shah of Iran dictatorship up until 1979, during which thousands of Iranians were killed, tortured and repressed and the oil flowed to the west like honey. Now a country that can't tell the difference between forged papers concerning Yellow Cake Uranium from Niger, a country that created Abu Graib, Guantanamo Bay, the secret prisons and prison ships around the world, a country that launched two recent wars on faked justifications and killed more than a million civilians, a country that overthrew 13 legitimate democracies, and that installed and financed 42 bloody and brutal dictatorships around the world, shouldn't be shooting off too loudly about human rights violations and IRAN; there are still murderers with badges, guilty of lynchings, running around free. By the way, Asians have a loooong memory and they remember the 'Chinese Exclusion Act'. They also know that the Opium Poppy is not and was never native-to-China. The British (read White-man) introduced it in order to addict the population and control the tea-silk-spice trade. Now the Chinese own us lock-stock and barrel. They are in Africa, the Mid-East and South America. Do you really think China (and Russia) will allow the U.S. or Israel to start World War III without them being involved?

Are you still stupid after all these years? Have you forgotten the U.S.S. Liberty which was attacked in international waters by Israeli forces on June 8, 1967, killing 34 Americans and wounding another 174?

James O'Donnell III
Fremont, CA

Seymour Hersh, the Pulitzer winner who accurately debunked Bush’s case for war in IRAQ, sheds light on today’s crusade to vilify Iran using the IAEA (from DemocracyNow, 6/3/11):

“What the IAEA said is something it’s been saying repeatedly, even under ElBaradei. And I must say, the new director general, Mr. Amano, is, I think, more willing to please us than ElBaradei was, just in terms of speculating more.

...The word ‘evidence’ was nowhere in the report. It’s been going on a long time... the IAEA has put out... report after report that say one thing, that’s the most important thing: NO EVIDENCE of any diversion of enriched materials, NO EVIDENCE that they’re squirreling away enriched uranium to make a secret bomb. They have a lot of uranium enriched, the 3.7 percent, yes, but there’s NO EVIDENCE they’re doing anything more than storing it up to run a civilian nuclear reactor... And so, it’s the same thing that’s been going on. You can look at the questions raised and lead your story with that, or you can look at the fact they say consistently that there’s been no diversion.”

And regarding those documents fed to the IAEA during Bush’s tenure -- the same SECRET-SOURCE, unauthenticated junk that’s been recycled for today’s warmongers (now that there’s a Western stooge leading the agency) -- here’s an excerpt from an IAEA press release in September 2009:

“...the IAEA reiterates that it has NO CONCRETE PROOF that there is or has been a nuclear weapon programme in Iran. At the Board of Governors´ meeting on 9 September 2009, Director General Mohamed ElBaradei warned that continuing allegations that the IAEA was withholding information on Iran are POLITICALLY MOTIVATED AND TOTALLY BASELESS.”

So now, in 2011, Washington is having secret meetings with its preferred IAEA director and AGAIN endeavoring to hurl the world into chaos based on a pack of lies. The evidence supporting THAT conclusion is abundant.

James O’Donnell III
Invitation2Artivism.com

Johndrake07
NYC

The US Neo-Cons have been salivating over Syria and Iran for years now - all you have to do is read their report 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' on the Middle East found on the (now disappeared) web site of the 'Project for a New American Century' and the textbook instructions on how they and their proxy, Israel, plan on destabilizing those countries, overthrowing their leaders, and seizing the oil and natural gas resources for the US in their hegemonic drive to sole world power status - all part of what they call the "Great Game."

General Wesley Clark, who commanded the North Atlantic Treaty Organization bombing campaign in the Kosovo war, recalls in his 2003 book 'Winning Modern Wars' being told by a friend in the Pentagon in November 2001 that the list of states that Rumsfeld and deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz wanted to take down included Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan and Somalia [and Lebanon].

When Douglas Feith was asked which of the six regimes on the Clark list were included in the Rumsfeld paper, he replied, "All of them."

Fortunately there are some saner heads standing up to the Israelis, the US and the Brits. Russia has finally started to exercise some clout and has warned Israel off of any attack or interference in the internal affairs of Iran or an attack on Iran's nuclear sites.

Now if we could get China to make similar suggestions to the US and the UK, then we might actually see some diplomatic skills at work and a defusing of the tensions that are threatening to embroil the US in yet another unaffordable war.

The Iranians are not stupid. Their civilization goes back way longer than others in the region. They are not Arabs, nor are they insane jihadists as other posters have written. They have never threatened the US.

This is all about making sure our puppet regimes in the Middle East are propped up with lackeys of our own making, and guaranteeing that oil and gas continue to flow. He who controls the oil controls the world.

Ike Solem
CA

According to NYT reporter James Risen in his book, "State of War", a least some of that nuclear explosive trigger technology was delivered to Iran via a Russian engineer as the result of flawed covert CIA program (with some assistance from Department of Energy scientists), along the lines of the "Fast and Furious" fiasco in Mexico that led to the resignation of the ATF head.

This was all apparently true, as evidenced by the CIA and DOJ responses:

Subpoena Issued to Writer in C.I.A.-Iran Leak Case
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
Published: May 24, 2011

"WASHINGTON — With the approval of Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., federal prosecutors are trying to force the author of a book on the C.I.A. to testify at a criminal trial about who leaked information to him about the agency’s effort to sabotage the Iranian nuclear program at the end of the Clinton administration."

Given similar claims about the Iraqi nuclear program - made by both the UN agency as well as by the Bush Administration lackeys - all this should be considered highly suspect.

If the UN would generate a report on Israel's nuclear weapons program, to go hand-in-hand with the one on the supposed Iranian version, then they might have a little more credibility on this.

John Williford
Richland, Washington

We see an endless chain of demonization of foreigners, creating the enemies needed to manipulate the public to support endless military actions and enrichment of the elite military-industrial complex. The pattern is the old technique of manipulation of meat puppets who imagine that their voting privilege gives them leverage on events. It is the story of Mussolini in Italy and Adolph Hitler in Germany. It is an easily recognized pattern of fascism.

If, like the Germans of the 1930s, we eat the hate-mongering garbage we are fed and continue to ignore the theft of our republic by the current crop of fascists, we will no doubt continue to be drawn into endless war, and greater and greater war criminality.

Fascism is an amoral system, playing to the most base aspects of crowd psychology. In the short term, it creates an illusion of being part of a Master Race (read American Exceptionalism), which is taken as an entitlement or exemption from law and morality.

Although it is said that the trains ran on time in Italy during the fascist period, the system does not have legs. In pragmatic terms, fascism doesn't work, because the dependence on external enemies and constant war leads to collapse and loss. This is not rocket science.

Looking at the Italian fascists and the German Nazi party, only an ignorant fool afflicted with exceptional vanity would purposely take this path.

The question ahead of US is: Does China want to own Iran? Hint: Is China getting a better deal from the liberated Libya than from Qaddafi?

Capitalism: Unfit for civilized societies

2011-10-23T18:05:00.000-07:00

The Paradox of the New Elite
By ALEXANDER STILLE
In economic terms, the United States has gone from being a comparatively egalitarian society to one of the most unequal democracies in the world.

_______________________________________

L.R.
Upstate New York

The U.S. has seen extreme economic stratification before; the Gilded Age of the Robber Barons still resonates across the decades. What has happened is that the forces that used to oppose wealth have largely abandoned the field, in part because of success, in part because of a shift in priorities, in part because of other conflicts.

To make a long comment short, the Democratic Party stopped fighting for economic justice in favor of social justice, and ended up selling out to the business community. For example, we now have a Democratic governor in New York State who is attacking state employee unions for having too much, while defending the right of millionaires to have even more - but he supports same sex marriage for rich and poor alike.

The full legacy of Martin Luther King has been forgotten. While everyone is aware of his leadership in fighting racial inequality, few know that he had come to see that economic inequality was as great a problem. At the time of his assassination, he was shifting his efforts to fight poverty as well as racism. It is ironic that King was rejected by many unions because of racism among union members, one of the things that led many of them to turn to Nixon and then Reagan in reaction to a Democratic Party that was spending their tax money on - in their opinion - undeserving minorities, and giving them special preferences.

This has pretty much given the forces driving inequality free rein over the last 30 years. The Republican Party has never had any problem accommodating racism or economic injustice; the party thrives on division. The break down of the labor - Democratic alliance, the destruction of unions in America, and the growing symbiosis between Wall Street and the Democratic Party Leadership has further accelerated the trend.

Inequality comes at a high price. Wilkinson and Pickett detail in the book "The Spirit Level" how it corrodes the quality of life for rich and poor alike in ways beyond money - is anyone listening?

anne
New York City
It's the old divide-and-conquer. White men who see women, immigrants and minorities becoming successful become resentful toward egalitarianism. They retreat to a fantasy identificiation with the white men who are members of the economic elite. The elite channels the anger of white men toward immigrants through psychologically sophisticated propaganda that makes them think it is the immigrants, not the Wall Street bankers, who are destroying their lifestyle and sense of identity. This is changing slowly, however, as the job prospects for college-educated white men have plummeted. A successful revolution in the United States needs white men, and the white men of the 99 per cent are waking up as they realize that even a middle-class life for them may be out of reach.

Barbara
New York
Economic inequality in the U.S. is exacerbated when then "elite" class, particularly those who control the banks, are permitted to gamble with citizens' money and not be held to accounts when their bets fail.

As Walker F. Todd, a research fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research and a former official at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, commented in a front-page NYT article today (Bank’s Collapse in Europe Points to Global Risks)regarding the possible collapse of the European banking giant, Dexia: “In the short run, it would help if the authorities would say they refuse to provide publicly funded money for the payoffs of derivatives,” he said. “This is like using public funds to support your local casino. It is difficult to see how this is good for society in the long run.”

Nathan an Expat
China
In many ways "inclusion" as discussed in this article (gender, race sexual orientation,etc...has) often serves as a specious bait and switch for the real issue of socio-economic class. Replacing the sons of the wealthy with the daughters of the rich will do little to address the growing gap between rich and poor. I remember clearly a conversation with a rich White South African on the eve of Mandela's triumph. A reporter was asking him what he would do if a Black South African bought the house beside him. He replied looking over the well groomed hedges and expanses of closely clipped grass, "If he can afford that house I think we'll get along just fine". And they do -- all over the world with the Ivies and similar educational systems providing a fig lead of "certification" for the laughable argument the system is somehow a meritocracy as opposed to a corrupt inbred favors trading plutocracy that takes care of its own. (How many US President's children are now working for hedgefunds? How many senior government officials rotate out of investment banks?) Oh, one last anecdote a Yale admissions officer spoke of their concept of a "well rounded" candidate being one who could "roll all the way from New Haven to Wall Street".

Marv Raps
New York City
Excellent article. However, the assumption that the super rich earned their wealth and have an inalianable right to keep it needs to be challenged. Those who captured a percentage of a nations wealth that would have made the aristocracy of the 19th Century envious did not earn it through hard work, creativity and innovation. Few, if any, are inventors of great industries and even if they were, they would have relied on legions of inventors, innovators and laborers who paved the way for their success. Others relied on their wealth to capture greater wealth. Money does not earn money, it can merely capture it. Until we rethink the way wealth is captured and the way workers are denied the full fruit of their labor, the stratification of society will continue to get more unequal and social mobility, less common.

petevanpelt
Leesburg, Florida
Inclusion of minorities is probably a consequence of federal laws originating from the slavery issue and not from any humanity emanating from the people, at least in the south. I am from the deep south and believe me when I tell you that old perverse attitudes still prevail.
Concentration of wealth, however, and the elitism which naturally accompanies it is a direct consequence of capitalism. In but a few hundred years, capitalism has changed the typical person from one who took great pride in his work, who valued the work ethic, and realized that work itself is what makes people happy, to a person who values money and possessions above character, and appearance above substance. We have morphed into a vain and superficial society.
It seems that superficial and vain people also have less respect for the truth. The majority of presidents since Hoover have been caught in lies, who knows how much deceit went unnoticed. The people themselves have been transformed to have less respect for the truth. The point being that the elitist tenet ‘giving truth to the people would be like throwing pearls to swine‘ is probably now true.
Capitalism has another quality rendering it unfit for civilized societies, it is a natural enemy of the Earth. It is simply cheaper, hence more profitable, to dump one’s manufacturing waste into the earth, sky, or ocean, than to dispose of it responsibly.

kallian publico
Brooklyn, NY
Hard work? Setting up a financial industry casino is hard work? Facebook is hard work? Porn sites? Are these the businesses of the future or are they the new churches of a mentality scornful of collective, social responsiblity because they thrive on vulnerable, individual uncertainty. Without morality collective approval and disapproval will not be forthcoming. The symptom of this inequality, alienation, is also the cause. The only way to overcome this problem will be through morality. Whoever Resets the boundaries of what is right and wrong gets to define what is "legal"(financial derivatives) and what is "criminal"(terrorists).

Ronald Cohen
Wilmington, North Carolina
The shifting balance of power in this nation is directly connected to the influence of money and benefit that is conferred on elected officials by the financially dominant that the pervasive appointment of financial insiders to government positions. To restore the balance that must (a) be term limits; (b) public electoral financing; (c) end to the revolving door; (d) overruling of Citizen United by Congress commonsensically defining a person as a biological entity not a legal fiction; (e) return to Glass-Stiegel.

WillT26
Durham, NC
The part that is even worse than the loss of opportunity is the quality of our 'elite.' Our 'elite' 'leaders' are incompetent, short-sighted and greedy. Having a system like ours might be palatable if the people at the top actually deserved their positions.

Andrew
Colesville, MD
There are at least two common misconceptions among the pundits. First, the economic inequality and second the consumption demand slump are the two root-causes of economic debacle. They are not. The root cause has nothing to do with these results of systematic breakdown due to internally inherent contradictions.

“It is the system, stupid!”

It is true that inequality is associated with any private-ownership system but with capitalism, the ruling class has systematically established the legitimated and justified inequality. Historical, educational, news media and cultural inculcations render egalitarianism a taboo or if not, a freeload-like concept or a socio-irony. Capital relies on taboos and cultural misconceptions for its supreme reign on people’s spiritual and intellectual lives, just as it sets up politics, ideology, law and order as well as civil society to rein in people’s political lives.

Capital-owners have never volunteered to confer on people egalitarianism without a struggle. The more people struggle against the system, the more they get concessions from the ruling class. When they failed to struggle, the obtained concessions became invalid almost at once. The class struggles and never subjective wishes decide the outcome. This socio-political rule applies equally well to race, gender, age, immigration, religion and cultural equalities.

The author seems to lean too much towards the disinterested and subjective willingness of an unnamed ruling class to understand correctly the socio-political conflicts the vast population faces today.

OWS protesters clearly understand better than pundits their class struggle can make much more difference than ballots that are not a match of the greased palms. Mass movements with democratic awakening are no longer isolated anti-capital democratic activities of the frontal battlegrounds such as the Arab countries; it has spread to vastly large rear areas of advanced or emerging capitalist countries.

BJW

Olympia, WA

I think, in fact, we have become a pseudo meritocracy. We are becoming more of an aristocracy where the privileged few can maintain their wealth from generation to generation through inheritance and their children get special treatment regardless of their academic achievement. Take George W. Bush, for example. Here was a mediocre student who gets into Yale because of his family name. With the demise of inheritance tax, compounded by economic stagnation, we've created a system that prevents social and economic mobility. Cronyism, nepotism, sycophantic behavior, and the like are the new norm in coporate and government culture. Arguably, the elite system perpetuates this condition since incompetent "leaders" like Bush now are the heads of of corporations And their dreadful decisions have destroyed the economy leaving only this aristocratic model in place. We are becoming a society like 19th century England without the glory of a monarchy.

professor

Egalitarian? Equality?

This piece lacks a historical perspective and is inaccurate. This country was founded on inequality and that has remained the status quo! Rich, white male landowners pitted themselves against white indentured servants and African slaves to maintain economic, legal and political power. Very little has changed since then! The author is confusing the increased visibility of minorities and women with actual economic and political power. The truth is that the descendants of the white landowners comprise the 1% that own 80% of the wealth in this country. There still exists institutional discrimination which prevents low-income whites, women and minorities from acquiring real wealth in this country. There never has been equality and there never will be unless the class structure is exposed and fundamentally altered.

Stephen de las Heras

New York, NY

The left needs to take responsibility for their failings as well. Dividing everyone into groups by race, or gender, or sexuality really undermined the notion of caring about everyone's rights, and everyone's opportunities, and distracted people from the real issue: growing inequality. Togetherness and fairness were traded away for group identity and trying to leverage that identity into some sort advantage in the real world through diversity initiatives or quotas. The only liberals who ever had a real sense that this was a bad thing, to the extent that they didn't belong to a "group", were often sent to the back of the line, or portrayed as the bad guys, were white heterosexual men.

Lynne

Wisconsin

If by "egalitarian" the author means "fair," we as a country, society and culture have never been so. George Washington was the richest man in the United States. For all it's high falutin' language about liberty and equality, the Constitution is rather vague and subject to interpretation-some would say written largely in favor of property owners, of which there were only a handful in Washington's day. The American Revolution was about wealthy colonists wanting a larger share than King George allowed and a redirection of the fomenting, angry rebellion of the other 99%: white indentured poor, slaves and natives who were joining forces against American Colony elites holding all the cards.

The middle class is a lovely invention designed to give just enough comfort to just enough people. Sated, it provides a buffer for the 1% against rebellion of the angry poor, for whom the middle class life is held out as a carrot. With the decimation of workers rights and the loss of the rising tide, which in the past did "raise all boats," the angry poor becomes an ever increasing threat.

Nothing new under the sun.

Dwight Bobson

Washington DC

This discussion assumes the existence in the U.S. of ideals, i.e., a free market and capitalism. The U.S. could produce greater financial equality within limits of a person's ability if the ideals were not gamed and twisted in favor of the already wealthy, which to me means certain people are allowed to cheat. If a company buys (read: campaign contribution), via political favor, a loophole in a law that allows it be favored over relative equivalent competitors, it creates inequality. If the same is done with a regulation that allows what amount to corporate welfare (see: http://www.cato.org/corporate-welfare, it creates inequality. There is no apparent accountability applied to cheaters, be they members of congress or those who buy their influence from them. Laws and their enforcement need to be in place to have a chance at financial equality. What the GOP as a political arm of the wealthy, with the help of the Democrats who are willing to allow cheating for both those who tug at their heartstrings as well as the wealthy campaign contributors, endorse is the de-regulatory government that has been increasing. And this is not to excuse Clinton's repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act as proposed by influential GOP congressmen. In summary, the average American has been cheated, knowingly and deliberately, by their elected representatives. And you cannot talk about ideals of equality and justice without recognizing that power corrupts and wealth buys power and so it also buys corruption. That man is so corruptible is simply a fact of life in America where greed has the stamp of approval from such a large segment of the powerful, of the leadership and of the elected.

Richard Doczy

California

So what is wrong with being un-egalitarian? Nothing in nature is. Nor in athletics, nor in scholarship, nor in beauty, nor...well you should get it by now. Why should we all be equally poor or rich? Makes no sense and trying to make us so simply makes those who would arrange it far more powerful than the rest of us.

Tom

Little Silver, NJ

It is time to recognize that income inequality is a normal, natural result of increasing productivity, especially from technology. We live in a world where increasingly complex (and formerly labor-intensive) tasks can be performed by fewer and fewer people. The trend started during the Industrial Revolution, and has likely accelerated during the Technological Revolution of the past 20 years. The difference is that we didn't notice, or didn't care, when 20 uneducated farm laborers were replaced by a thresher or combine. But when 20 college-degreed accountants are replaced by a spreadsheet program, or 20 highly-skilled arc welders are replaced by a robot on an assembly line, we notice. All the wages that those displaced workers used to receive are going to naturally get redistributed upward to fewer, more technologically-skilled workers.

This is progress, and is natural. And it is beneficial to society. Instead if fighting it, we must learn to cope, and teach our children to cope, and prepare so that they are not left behind.

You want income equality? Ban the computer. Ban electricity while you're at it.

Teed Rockwell

Response to Tom in NJ:

"This is progress, and is natural."

So is bubonic plague, and economic collapse caused by housing bubbles. That doesn't make it right or desirable.

"And it is beneficial to society."

Only if you define society as the Rich

"Instead if fighting it, we must learn to cope, and teach our children to cope, and prepare so that they are not left behind."

And how are we to do that when education is now so expensive that only the Rich can afford it?

Vincent Amato

New York City

The real problem is the notion that American exceptionalism is to be maintained at any price. When it became clear that European and Asian economies were trending toward greater prosperity as the devastation of WWII receded into the past, it appeared that economic policy makers made decisions that said to our own citizens and to the world at large, "we may no longer be able to provide the relative advantages to our workers and ascendant middle class that they acquired in the 1950s, but we will allow some Americans at least to acquire wealth unimaginable in any other country." The now highly vaunted 1% is, in effect, an American version of the Potemkin Village, a facade of highly tinseled wealth behind which the vast majority are left to make do the best they can on their own. This is not a byproduct of superior skills or the magic of capitalism for a handful, it is a matter of policy, of, in effect, subsidies to the richest Americans. We have been taught to believe that anything more equitable would create a grey, Scandinavian style socialist reality.

Colorado Going Blue

Colorado

Inequities are forgiven if success is achieved. Success has become based on our modern icons. Our social icons are given, largely, by the media. These icons are the rich and famous. Success is determined, somewhat by talent, but mostly by access to capital. Those who are the traditional gatekeepers of the capital are formidable in excluding those who are not cultivated in the knowledge, or the family, understanding how to access capital. No investment, no return, so to speak. But more brutish is that there are painfully few protections any longer to control how capital is raised at the elite level. Pillaging those without has become fair game. Hence the elite end of the pool is heading in an upward trajectory toward success at the logistical expense of those on the bottom being pushed further downward. There is no equality in a society which cannot create a government that can consistently protect those with less political power from those who hold it. There are no protections in America for being poor.

Calm down, everyone. We have no idea what's coming next

2011-10-22T17:29:00.000-07:00

Qaddafi Is Dead
Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi was killed Thursday as fighters battling the vestiges of his fallen regime took control of his hometown of Surt after a prolonged struggle, the interim government said.

___________________________________

Anon
NY
Obama is a smart leader with sensible policies that are achieving tangible foreign policy results. The war in Afghanistan is his albatross, but nobody can question his strength as Commander in Chief. He has been strong, decisive and has delivered results in the nuanced way expected of a 21st Century leader.

Zero US casualties, lasting friendship from the Libyan people (who feel they own their revolution) and a $1.1 billion price tag (that's less than 3 days of Iraq operations at its peak run rate). By the end of the week, Republicans will have found a way to make this UNITED AMERICAN and NATO success turn into a negative against Obama.

Think for myself
Pasadena, Cal.
Perhaps those who awarded our president the Nobel peace prize knew that he possessed the sort of goodness and determination that would bring justice to world. If only the detractors here at home would allow President Obama an opportunity to better our situation here at home.

street professor
sydney, australia

Just shows what can be achieved when the US, Al Qaeda and NATO work together.

First thing is get that privatised Central Bank in place and start printing that fiat money. It's time those Libyans started paying income tax and high health care/education costs so they can get a taste of this democracy lifestyle.

And don't worry about your destroyed infrastructure, Western corporations will look after that, plenty of cash in the frozen funds to cover it. Now Libyans, get out in the streets and celebrate for the cameras.

GodBlessTheWorld
New York,NY

Cheap oil for the "first world"

Phil Greene
Houston, Texas
I am truly sorry and deeply ashamed of the US role it this. We the international rogue are a World Wide Horror Show with no credibility at all.

Daniel
Seattle
Those of you who think Gaddafi was responsible for the Lockerbie bombing should do more research. Gaddafi and Libya had nothing to do with it. And according to wikileaks, Gaddafi was, among North African leaders, the most modest and restrained as a leader.

We just destroyed a nation, and murdered a great leader who envisioned an Africa free from Western propaganda imperialism.

FOR
USA
NATO kills a president and the world cheers! No due process, no rule of law. Thugs in the streets killing black Libyans and they are in Power. Why on earth should any dictator then agree to give up power? or for that matter, abandon their insurance policy - Nuclear weapons???

Liam
Detroit
Muammar Gaddafi bravely removed an imperialist stooge (King Idris) from power, and transformed Libya from the world's poorest nation to the most developed in Africa. The system of direct democracy implemented by him in Libya beginning in 1977 may have been imperfect, but inspiring nonetheless. This is a man who helped shatter apartheid. Before Gaddafi's rise to power, 20% of the population was literate. Today, it's 88%, and essentially equal between males and females.

It is a shame to see him being portrayed as some tyrant or dictator, all the while an illegitimate and unpopular group of imperialist proxies are being called heroes. Hillary Clinton went to Tripoli and lectured about women's rights -- ignoring the fact that women in Libya are overwhelmingly pro-Gaddafi and there is not a single woman on the NTC.

They may have killed him, but Gaddafi lives in the heart of millions.

The Realist
New York
The American Imperialist Assassins at it again. The third world loves you, that is until they get the upper hand. What a victory! Qaddafi was no role model, but certainly a free spirited character with a flair for theatrics (look at our pathetic cast of leaders, they are losers too, however, with no style or taste). Billions of American dollars spent (wasted) in the name of Democracy and to silence any opposition party that we can't control. Wild West justice rules. Hang 'em high!!!!

Michael Kittle
Vaison la Romaine, France
DID OBAMA ASSASSINATE QADAFFI ALSO along with the two American citizens in Yemen?

How can you tell if your living in a dictatorship or a democracy? If your head of state wants to assassinate an enemy of the people, but the enemy gets arrested, charged, has an attorney and a trial, and is found guilty or innocent by a jury, you are probably living in a democracy.

If your head of state wants to assassinate an enemy of the people, signs a death warrant, and the enemy of the people is murdered by an unmanned drone weapon, then you are probably living in a dictatorship!

Joe
Santa Cruz, CA
What's the price tag for this hollow victory?

Gaddafi was bad guy no doubt, but will his death mean anything to anyone in this country? Another bridge not fixed, another student unable to afford college, another senior not able to afford medicine, and on and on it goes.

At what point will all the boogeymen be put down enough for the military-industrial complex in this country to be scaled back? For all it's accomplices in the government (R's & D's!) to quit using fear as a scapegoat for not fixing problems right here at home?

Mark me as glad he's gone, but tired of yet another meaningless victory salute when we all are losing with these continual wars.

Hal
Chicago
Calm down, everyone. We have no idea what's coming next.

kaleidoscope

2011-10-20T09:45:00.000-07:00

grusilag
dallas, tx

We are in the absolute richest of times. At no point in human history has there been as much technology, medicine, and food. Austerity measures, cut backs, and recessions are not a result of actual poverty, but the result of a faulty distribution system governed and determined by a faulty monetary system. Please let's fix the monetary system and please let's stop pretending we're poor lest we make it actually happen.

Yannick
Germany

2000 families own 80% of the Greek national wealth and don't pay any taxes while the average Greek worker suffers from salary cuts of about 25%.
Everyone's talking about austerity measures but only if they don't trouble the rich people or the military budget.
This obviously is a result of the economic incompetence of the German and French governments and the fact that politics are totally controlled by the financial system.

The left-leaning Berliner Zeitung writes:

"We do not know where the financial crisis of 2011 is leading us. We only know, no, we sense, that politicians are clueless. As clueless as we are ourselves."

"Why is the rescue package getting ever bigger? Because politicians believe that only a gigantic, completely unsurpassable package will prevent speculators from pulling currencies and countries into war. Why do the leaders of Europe only meet during periods when the stock markets are closed? Because they fear the markets and share prices. Why is the German parliament, the Bundestag, being almost systematically excluded from decisions on the bailout? Because the leaders are not even sure they can convince fellow parliamentarians. Politicians are no longer thinking of their public."

"We are observing the suicide of politics. Politicians no longer make policy. What is making policy? Drawing up rules in the first place, making and enforcing laws. That is, stopping speculators from speculating. It does not entail acting as state-run speculators, speculating against speculators. But the rescue package is precisely that. It is a defensive shield against speculators which must become ever bigger as the supposed risk of speculation grows. Perhaps €2 trillion is much too little? Perhaps in four weeks we will be talking at a new EU summit of €4 trillion? Perhaps there is a way to increase the so-called leverage. The logic is absurd."

_______________________

Turkey Pursues Kurdish Rebels After 24 Soldiers Are Killed Near Iraq
By SEBNEM ARSU
After Kurdish militants killed at least 24 Turkish soldiers, Turkey’s military responded by sending hundreds of troops into northern Iraq in a counterattack on Kurdish insurgent hide-outs.

irwin
Annapolis, MD

So it's okay for the Turks to pursue terrorists into Iraq but not for Israel to pursue terrorists in Gaza. And its okay for Turkey to occupy northern Cyprus but Israel must immediately vacate the West Bank. Erdogan is a first-class hypocrite. When will he be seen for what he is?

EMIP
Washington, D.C.

JW wrote in part:

“#4 & #18: since you both seem to have a conspiratorial sense -- and of course immediately insinuate that it is payback by Israel against the Turks …”

JW, no need to have a conspiratorial sense; just read the article published 09/09/11 in the Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronot , where Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, the extreme right-wing coalition partner in the present Israeli government is reported to have been:

"… planning to set meetings with the heads of Kurdish rebel group PKK in Europe in order to 'cooperate with them and boost them in every possible area.' In these meetings, the Kurds may ask Israel for military aid in the form of training and arms supplies"

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4119984,00.html

And to Postgradny who wrote in part:

“#20, So what would be the big deal for big countries like Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran to give up a small part of their land to allow the millions and millions of Kurds the right for the first time to have a land …”

The answer is for the same reason that we here in the U.S. have fought wars to prevent the secession of states from the Union - to maintain the territorial integrity of our nation.

Dulcinea
New York, NY

We must give the credit where it is due. Israeli foreign minister promised terrorist retaliation against Turkey. He has delivered. He may be a nutcase but he holds his promises.

Alex650
Bay Area, Ca

I'm so tired about hearing about "rebels" who appear from thin air that the news keeps feeding us on in order to brace us for another war.. Who cares.. Seriously.. Let us mind our own business for once, we all know the Mssd and C_I_A are stirring it up all the unrest. It's getting old and they should deal with it without even mentioning it to us.

72AS72
Dana Point, CA

Just like Hamas initially was created by the Israelis to weaken the PLO, Mssd has a long history of training terrorist groups like the PKK.
Here is the BBC report on that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glTN6tNzz1g

Yabaulee
NYC

Looks like the C_I_A and the Mssd are trying to just nudge Tayyip Erdogan a little. He irritated the heck out of them with his pro Muslims talk of "uprising" and strong words for Israel.So they asked their proxies to give him little headache.

Z.G.
Vienna, VA

Gotta agree with Yabaulee here. After a long period of silence, the PKK started causing trouble again just around the time Erdogan started talking tough on Israel. In the world of Middle Eastern politics, nothing is ever a coincidence.

Iran-targeting lunacies

2011-10-17T14:14:00.000-07:00

After giving up on ObamaCare, Obambi insists with the Iran-targeting lunacies. NYTimes has it:

To Isolate Iran, U.S. Presses Inspectors on Nuclear Data
By DAVID E. SANGER and MARK LANDLER
President Obama wants United Nations inspectors to release intelligence showing that Iran’s nuclear program is designing and experimenting with weapons technology.

__________
The readers, smarter than the official if not officious, writers have it:

Bill M
California
October 15th, 2011
8:16 pm
President Obama is looking more and more like Israel's poodle as he follows Israel's dangerous and foolhardy script for attacking Iran. When is he going to sit down with Iranian representatives and work out our differences rather than risking another (fourth) war with unknowable consequences worldwide?
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7.
Grisha
Boston
October 15th, 2011
8:16 pm
Will the US make the same demand with respect to Israel?!? Otherwise, this is sheer hypocrisy and a prevarication to justify as US/Israeli act of war.
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3.
Simon
Tampa
October 15th, 2011
8:15 pm
It is Iraq all over again. Good thing that I never believed that Obama was any kind of change to believe in.
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4.
hillishager
Florida
October 15th, 2011
8:15 pm
Just what we need from Obama. More war. More spending of money we don't have.

Does Obama have any sense beyond trying to get reelected the way Bush did -- as a "war president"?

New estimate of U.S. war costs: $4 trillion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/checkpoint-washington/post/new-estim...
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12.
William O. Beeman
Minneapolis
October 15th, 2011
8:54 pm
The Obama administration amazingly continues to beat the dead horse of the "scary" Iranian nuclear program long after it has ceased to serve the purpose it was designed for--namely to gin up public support for a military attack on Iran. No one has provided one scintilla of evidence that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. In fact, the National Intelligence Estimates of 2007 and 2011 both reaffirmed that there is no evidence for this. Every IAEA report since Iran began to be monitored is unequivocal in stating that "no diversion of nuclear material (for military purposes) has taken place." And yet the U.S. government keeps pushing, pushing, pushing, to finally badger the IAEA to saying that Iran is building weapons. Enough already! The U.S. or Israel has been saying that Iran is one or two years away from a nuclear weapon since 1990, and requiring Iran to undertake the impossibility of proving a negative all that time.

What is this madness? Is this a sop to Israel? Insurance that President Obama will not be excoriated for being "soft on Iran" in his re-election bid? Or more ominously, a wind up to the old plan of military attack?

Now we have what appears to have been an FBI sting operation to pin Iranian-American used car salesman Mansour Arbabsiar's crazy abortive plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador on Iran's highest leaders. It looks like the American public is being softened up for another American or American-backed adventure in the Middle East, and this one will not be pretty if it comes off.
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11.
Martha Shelley
Portland, Ore.
October 15th, 2011
8:19 pm
Where else does Obama want to start a war?
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2.
MMP
NYC
October 15th, 2011
8:15 pm
And then what? Yet another war?
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18.
Tom
Toronto
October 15th, 2011
9:20 pm
Welcome to Obama's new re-election strategy, War with Iran. (he also thinks this will finally endear him to Republicans... good luck with that).

Maybe Tehran should have had a public temper tantrum when the West assassinated several of its scientists in the past months.

Makes you wonder where the cool heads really preside.
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13.
Robert Emery
Desert SW on the Border
October 15th, 2011
8:54 pm
Obviously from this article Obama won't settle for anything less than all out WAR.
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10.
AV
NC
October 15th, 2011
8:19 pm
"any third country that did business with the central bank would be cut off from the American financial system."

I (and many around the world these days) say big deal. The American financial system is no longer the only, or even the best deal in town. We need to get used to the idea that America is now, and will increasingly become, weaker in our international dealings because we are no longer the premier economy in the world. Sure, we're still the biggest, but far less stable than in the past and the international community is looking into ways to dump us as the global market standard bearer. We have to start getting used to the idea that we are no longer, and will never again be, #1. It's time we participate in the global community as rational citizens of the world and stop the incessant insistence that we somehow deserve something extra from the world just because we're so darn special.
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22.
naluca
cleveland
October 15th, 2011
9:24 pm
It's impossible to believe, given this poor president's track record, that this saber-rattling with Iran is anything other than part of the presidential campaign.
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16.
connie mack
phoenicia new york
October 15th, 2011
9:19 pm
translation:

the united states is inviting the other western nations to join it in bombing the crud out of another country. please join us.

welcome to rome
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38.
Sarah
Westfield, NY
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
No more war. Stop voting for war-mongers. Enough is enough. We spend too much money trying to kill other people. This is no way to live.
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34.
susan w.
central Idaho
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
So here we go again with suspected WMDs. I suppose since fear worked for Bush and Obama is his clone this is the new reelection strategy ginned up to distract from the current unemployment crisis.

Why oh why must we have nothing but war-mongering macho men in power who think the only way to win is to out-gun the opposition.

Give peace a chance and see what happens.
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27.HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Don B
Massachusetts
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
Attacking Iran is crazy. Look what happened to Saddam when he invaded Iran! Besides, what kind of idiot thinks they can stop someone from developing weapons by threatening them? For that to be effective, Iran would have to believe we wouldn't attack them if they gave up their Nuclear program. Saddam gave up his and we invaded and hung him. Qaddafi gave up his and we helped overthrow his government. Iran and North Korea believe they need Nuclear weapons because that seems to be the only thing that scares the American government enough to prevent us from attacking them. The aren't wrong.

The Nuclear nonproliferation treaty requires nuclear states such as the US to protect nonnuclear signatories such as Iran from Nuclear attack by others such as Israel. No one believes that we will live up to our obligations. That is another reason why Nuclear weapons are spreading rapidly.
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23.
LZ
Pennsylvania
October 15th, 2011
9:24 pm
This is not the change that I voted for. Ron Paul for President! He is the only one I believe in now.
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45.
Esther Haman
DC
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
The Zionist have made a fool out of our president. President Obama is trying hard to stay with this baseless accusation just to justify the new sanctions that we are forced by the Zionists to be imposed on the Iranians.

It is a shame how much this tail is able to wag the dog.

Get real.
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44.
TedV
Houston, TX
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
The sad episode at the UN over the Palestinian issue has left Obama looking just like one more Aipac drone in the US government, and this time around, his pet like obedient response pushes us into the danger zone. It's inconceivable that this so called plot, an amateurish flop, be cause for even mentioning a war posture against Iran.
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20.
MS
Chicago
October 15th, 2011
9:23 pm
this is the same type of rethoric during the Bush administration, nothing changed. It all about oil and why we need to energy independent!!
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17.
GorgeClimber
Washington
October 15th, 2011
9:20 pm
I cannot, with good conscience, ever imagine voting for any of the GOP candidates except Huntsman, who has some understanding of international affairs. I just wish that the US government would get off their use of isolation as a strategy for dealing with countries that don't kowtow to them. The strategy has just punished the citizens, but not the leaders, of Cuba, Iraq, North Korea, and Iran among others. While I believe we have the best country to live in on the planet, I also believe we have a lot of leaders and representatives who are cruel and flat-out incompetent. Otherwise they would focus on domestic issues and practice compromise.

Rather than singling out Iran, perhaps the IAEA should put out a table listing ALL countries having nuclear capability or aspirations and what capabilities they have. The US still will not address the issue of whether Israel has the capability. Since some nuclear scientists retired from Berkeley in the US to Israel, one would foolish to think they do not. 20% enrichment for a reactor production of medical isotopes is typical. To get to the 90-98% needed for bomb grade still takes a lot more steps in the enrichment process.

As a follow-up to the recent arrest, the idea that a terrorist incident would be used in DC to assassinate the Saudi ambassador is pretty far-fetched. Were the event to occur, the US would use the case as a pretext to blow the hell out of Iran and Iran knows it. I sure hope the US government starts taking the accused to trial a lot quicker than they did the Guantanamo or Moussaoui trials. I sure hope they can bring truthful evidence, in contrast to the way Colin Powell got set up on the "weapons of mass destruction."

President Obama should consider why G Bush 1 and Al Gore didn't get to be president ... something called a third party. Even though I've supported Obama on many issues, he's testing my patience with Iran and getting us even more immersed overseas. After Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, what else?
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43.
friend for life
USA
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
The real battle for Obama at the moment I believe is raising campaign donations and sending strong signals to the banking and AIPAC sectors in America that he can deliver the goods, and that they should donate big - it's the 2012 campaign and he's auctioning off domestic and foreign policy to anyone with treasure. Shame on you Mr. Obama -

Why are you not spending your time thinking and planning to tackle all the threats looming closer to home for America - like the corruption of the banking and finance sector destroying the foundation of democracy. Other domestic failures gaining speed will lead to profound destabilization if not revolution, to say nothing of real and pervasive poverty expanding in the USA for decades in the future. Food, jobs, education, environmental protection, take your pick and get busy spending your days in meetings to tackle these problems instead of spending your time digging deeper into more foreign policy failures.

If you're smart you can begin an effort toward restoring democracy to America, if you're another Nixon or Cheney just keep it up and your legacy will be nailed to America's legacy of hypocrisy like no other president of the past. Some people are saying it's well past time to return that Nobel Peace Prize. I'm sad to say in recent months I have finally lost all faith too. I have carefully faced the facts and any sense of voting for you again has been lost, change and hope no longer exist and won't be offered again to a candidate for a long time. Thanks Mr President, you've taken the level of political hypocrisy and deception in America to a new level.
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40.
LaurieAG
Queensland, Australia
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
I don't know what's happened to the USA that the world used to know.

At least the wars will stop when your military can't afford to go invading other countries anymore. Then your internal wars start because your politicians blew the trillions they should have spent on health, education and infrastructure.

Vale America.
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36.
Jon
New Mexico
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
It's sad that when a lunatic like Ahmedinejad discusses U.S. foreign policy, he makes more sense and is more trustworthy than our own president or any of our president's advisors.
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39.
Aredee
Madison, Wi
October 15th, 2011
11:32 pm
When the news first broke of Iran's supposed involvement in the assassination plot, I assumed that it was the start of a campaign to justify taking out Iran's nuclear installations.
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50.
Frances Morris
Boulder, CO
October 16th, 2011
1:44 am
The bogus "murder plot" is to Iran as the bogus "WMD" was to Iraq. Are we so gullible as to be once again lied into another war, this time WW 3? We have reached the zenith of folly and self-destruction!!

_________________________

NOW, DO YOU ALSO DETECT AN EMERGING LINE OF THE POPULAR DISCOURSE IN THE ABOVE COMMENTS?

WILL THE CHOSEN ACT OR REACT?

crying wolf vs. jaded public

2011-10-12T13:51:00.000-07:00

U.S. Accuses Iranians of Plotting to Kill Saudi Envoy
By CHARLIE SAVAGE and SCOTT SHANE
Federal authorities said they have foiled a plot by men linked to the Iranian government to kill the Saudi ambassador to the United States and to bomb Saudi and Israeli Embassies.

_____________

Margaretleo
NY

I don't believe this for one minute. Why would Iran risk war with the U.S.? This is a lie meant to justify the U.S. or Israel attacking Iran. Once again the American people will be complicit in the commission of a crime.

Voltaire
San Francisco, CA

How utterly convenient that this supposed plot is being revealed at this particular moment. It drives all the other more pressing news items off the front page. No front page articles about the ongoing occupation of Wall Street. No more front page coverage of the increasingly embarassing details coming about about Eric Holder's false testimony about his involvement in the illegal arms shipments to the Mexican drug cartels.

This is "Wag The Dog" all over again. It reeks of desperation.

robert21
brooklyn

I get a creepy feeling that the Industrial Miliary OverLords are seeing the end of The Iraq thing and the Afhganistan Thing coming to an end soon and they need a new source of Income. Let's set the tone for a new war-with Iran!!!

Yes it won't be long before Cantor and Boehner and Limbaugh and CHeney will be calling for Military Action in Tehran. Let them pick up a rifle and go.

Nazir Lunat
Stockton, California

Load of garbage. The Obama regime is looking for excuses based on fabricated lies. Are we expected to believe that the Iranians are so stupid to hatch such a silly plot.
The USA is well known for conceiving conspiracy theories, are we not reminded of the Bush lies that Iraq posed an imminent nuclear threat. Now we have Holder peddling his lies

Phaedo
Earth

This story is intriguing on several different levels due to the different plot-lines it excites.

Attorney General Holder, the D.E.A., and the FBI are all getting pats on the back from Obama even in light of the publicly disastrous "Fast and Furious" weapons sting operation. Does this administration really think that American citizens have such short-term memory loss?

This entire assassination plot was technically never going to take place. Once the plotters made contact with the undercover D.E.A. agent, posing as the Mexican drug cartel member, the plot was essentially ruined. The first meeting took place sometime in the Spring. This begs several questions: Was there ever any real danger? Was the Iranian gov't really that involved in such an unorganized scheme?
To add confusion to the entire situation, the original plan was to to have the Mexican cartel kidnap the Saudi ambassador. So when did it become an assassination plot, before or after contact was made with the undercover D.E.A. agent?

The story will surely ignite the debate about border control between U.S. and Mexico. And, in the coming days we will hear from many Congress members about the ways in which Obama should "retaliate."

Meanwhile, news stories about true American strife will be brushed aside in favor of talking "terror." Citizens will continue to take opposing sides on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and immigration rather than holding our leaders accountable for job creation, tax reforms, and big business legislation. Our politicians are extremely good at what they do, unfortunately what they do is not always in the best interest for the country itself.

JHinNC
Charlotte NC

Looks to me like somebody's wagging the dog for "Fast and Furious" Eric Holder. How far is the Obama administration willing to go to rehabilitate this mutt's political viability?

Rich
Huntington Beach, CA

If the report is true, then congratulations are in order to our Federal Intelligence Community, for a job well done. Keep-up the good work.

AmatureHistorian
NYC

POTUS needs a war to get reelected.

RDV
Pennsylvania

Ah, the "mobile WMD labs" and "uranium tubes" necessary to justify bombing Iran. I wondered when this was going to be ginned-up.

Jeff North
California

WHEW!! The saudis can breathe a huge sigh of relief. This latest plot will undoubtably distract the Western media as their warlords in Riyadh mow down democracy protestors with impunity.

Remind me again why we even have a saudi embassy in DC??

xx123xx
USA

Boy! There are conspiracy theorists everywhere and for every issue. Even a report like this one gets labelled as a distraction against the Wall Street occupation movement; a political preparation for war with Iran; another business plan of the war industry; and what comes next?

Why can't we just take these news at their face value, and praise the good work that the American Intelligence is doing to protect us, and thank them?

Let's redirect our hostility toward Wall Street, the politicians, the big industry, and express it in other more appropriate fori. Let's enjoy these good news.

IT
Ottawa, Canada

Interesting how the first mention of this story in the New York Times contained this quote.
'... "We will not let other countries use our soil as their battleground," Preet Bharara, the U.S. attorney in Manhattan, said at a press conference in Washington with Holder and FBI Director Robert Mueller. ...'
Quite understandable why such a risibly hypocritical statement should be dropped from reporting. After all even in an "exceptional" country insisting that the rest of the world must 'do as we say not as we do' seems gratuitously offensive.

Andy
Palo Alto CA

I simply don't believe it. Smells to me like a neocon pretext to start that war with Iran they've always wanted.

Whose interests are being served? Our military-industrial oligarchs: yes. Our 'ally' Israel: yes. America and its people: no.

Evan
Bronx, NY

It's amusing to see a lot of comments here accusing the administration of using this incident for political purposes. In light of 9/11/2001, I wish the Bush administration had acted as proactively in preventing it, as they did to use it as an excuse to go to war in Iraq. If in fact this plot had been successful, I would bet the very same who are accusing Obama of using this for political purposes would be accusing him of being soft on terrorism.

Greg
Sugar Land, TX

LET ME GUESS . . .

Do they have Weapons of Mass Destruction too ?

Cass
New Jersey

We're supposed to believe this? Why does our government have to trot out Iran as the bad guy? Agree with other posters who've said this takes the spotlight off of the assassination of Awlaki, the OWS protesters, and I would add my own two cents: the upcoming vote on Palestinian statehood. Looks like votes are lining up in favor so the the U.S. of A is going to have to use its veto. Wage the dog indeed.

Christopher Hill
Houston, Texas

This stinks to high heaven. There are so many things wrong with this, I dont know where to begin:

- Does anyone believe that Iranian intelligence would try to use Mexican gangs to carry out their dirty work? Please.
- If you listen closely, the Feds are not alleging the Iran government was involved. "Elements" of the government could mean anything. But they are saying "Iran' enough to bait the press into printing headlines like "Iran terrorist plot foiled".
- Of all the countries in the world for the Iranians to attack a Saudi diplomat, why here? No way!
- Some Fed was already quoted as saying "the plot was foiled before it even became a plot". So, as time goes on, we will learn that there were a few clowns set up for a fall, by our government that needed this play (for whatever reason).

Tyler
NYC

False flag operation!

marc
Florida

Something does not smell right with this story. The Iranians hire drug guys to kill a Saudi in the US? The US-Iranian citizen has a criminal record in the US. Why would a secret operative be getting into trouble with the law? This is not going to turn out as reported. But, with Iraq winding down, we might have to spend a few more million dollars on bombs for Iran (as in, dropped on them.) Drug thugs are a very convenient scapegoat for anyone planning a crime, or trying to divert attention. Stay tuned for this one.

John Hrvatska
NY

All the fabricated evidence the US used to justify its invasion into Iraq has ruined its credibility. How does the world know that this time the US isn't using this to pick a fight everyone knows it wants to have? It could be that the US is telling the truth on this one, but how would you know?

Carlos
Bogota, Colombia

I don't doubt the Quds Force, so involved in proyecting Iranian influence in the Middle East, would be able to imagine something like this. But why would the Iranians do something so stupid, so intrepid and so easily traceable back to them?
Why single out the Saudi Ambassador IN the US, if you could target Saudi interests abroad, in places like Europe or the Middle East far easier and with less risk and higher operational control?
And why use the Mexican drug cartels, an unreliable and completely new "ally" to say the least? Didn't they (the Quds force) make a background check on the DEA agent they were using for the plot?

A bunch of holes in this operation.

Drew
Chapel Hill, NC

Wow, this is one way to distract us from the theft that is going on on Wall Street. They are pushing the Iranian gov. connection really hard. AND, who knew Eric Holder was still around!?! I though he dropped off the map years ago - looks like he was just staying out of site so he would not have to work on the rampant fraud in the financial sector.

Phil Greene
Houston, Texas

So the US is trying to pick another fight. This time it is Iran. Why is this news? I rather like Iran.

in-awe
California

"Mr. Holder said the Mexican government had been instrumental in the investigation."

Very interesting. Proponents of a sealed southern border have produced evidence for years that there are large numbers of Middle Eastern illegal border crossers. I wonder if this will be further proof of the danger of leaving the border fundamentally open. Congress should press Holder for details about this issue.

Persique
Minnesota

I cannot believe the nightmare is happening again. Not only I don’t believe this story, I firmly believe that this the same pretext to war as happened with the Iraq’s non-existent WMD allegation which we never found. Our government is destroying our home country by falling prey to foreign propagandists all around and Special Interest Groups.
America must do what is good for America, but what is good for America must not be bad for others as it will eventually come back to haunt us.
Our agitations in Syria, our suppression of Egyptian’s hope of a free and democratic nation, our turning a blind eye to the murderous regime in Bahrain, our support for the hated government in Yemen all lead to only one conclusion and that is preserving Israel’s impunity to literally enslave the Palestinians.
Former President George W. Bush said, “The Israelis have a right to defend themselves.” I agree a hundred percent, but within their own borders set by United Nations in 1948. In Palestine and Syria they are the aggressors and it is the Palestinians and Syrians who have the right to defend their country, homes, and farms by any means available to them against such a bully we support.
We cannot support and continue our daily drone attacks against a concocted and non-existent threat while we are denying food, shelter, healthcare, and education for our own people.
I hope in the upcoming election we have become wise enough NOT to elect politicians who have any sort of ties with lobbyists and Special Interest Groups. We elect our politicians to look after us not some spoiled child who spies on us, steals from us, and demeans our President.

zygote1331
NY

An attack on the US soil to bomb Saudi & Israeli embassies? As noted here this sounds ludicrous. Iran can attack Saudis on the Arabian Peninsula with impunity. Why bring it to the US? The intersection of Iran and Mexican cartels only serves this administration. Hell, now we can invoke two bogey men in one plot! Last point: why is it such an outrage when others wage secretive black ops missions in the US when we do that daily throughout the world? Can anyone smell hypocrisy?

HAIDER ALI
NEW YORK

It seems more fiction than fact. Iranians are the most active agents of the CIA, Mansoor Arbab and Ghulam Shakoor look like on the payroll of the U.S. Treasury Department.
We have seen the fabricated and unsubstantiated news about Libya by the CIA, which caused the massacre of women and children there. For the Republicans it was just a fun, and an act of heroism. Anyhow we can't trust our government anymore.

azarn
Wheaton, IL

If the Iranians really wanted to carry out the plot, they would do it somewhere else where the security is lax. This is another fabricated lie planted by the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia to divert attention from the economic problems at home and the military problems in Iraq and Afghanistan.

led33
Montreal

“Iran has no respect for international law.” LOL! This coming from a Saudi diplomat! If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black!

Paul
White Plains, NY

You mean the Iranians are bad enough so that even Holder has finally been forced to recognize that fact? I guess the Obama appeasement policy towards radical Islam didn't work after all.

David
Cambridge, MA

One man is a US citizen, as much an American as any other. Why does the headline say "Iranians" are accused? Is it now the policy of the Times to identify crime suspects in headlines by their ethnicity? I'd like to see that. Or is this a way of making insinuations of government responsibility in the absence of any proof?

Attempts by the US government to play the victim of the Iranian government are comical. Did they overthrow our elected government? Install a murderous secret police regime in our country? Arm Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons to attack us? Shoot down our passenger plane and award the commanding officer a medal? (Well, maybe, but apparently we blame a hapless Libyan!)

If anything, this incident calls to mind the assassination in Washington of the Chilean diplomat Orlando Letelier. But that murder was committed by our government's right-wing terrorist allies, so the press didn't make tortured attempts to turn it into a casus belli.

Todd
Paradise Calif

A dollar to a dime that if you follow the money trail that it would lead you to a third party, not Iran itself.

Harlan H.
New York, NY

Hm, I usually think of the Iranian government as misguided, but not stupid. If these allegations are true, they've moved on to stupid and/or suicidal.

Given that, one wonders if this was just a "side project" of a couple of misguided operatives.

Lance
New York City

If actually real, such a plot by a foreign government would be an act of war, no? I'm curious to know the status of such actions under international law.

'MerkaTheBroke-n
Atlanta, GA

Thirteen (13) Saudi nationals flew airplanes into the World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon and almost the Capitol building on 9/11/2001. George W. Bush welcomed the Saudi sheik to his personal ranch house later and kissed his hand to boot. Put that in your crackpipes and smoke it up good warped 'merka!!! Kirk out, beam me up Scottie, this country is warped INSIDE-OUT, UPSIDE-DOWN, BACKWARDS, DIAGONALLY!!!

Morey
Knoxville, TN

What a bunch of nonsense! I thought the State Department was more creative in propeganda than that!!

egf
Houston

Dear Federal Government:
No. It is not okay that you begin building a case to invade another country in order to provide a distraction from what is going on at home. Again. This time we're paying attention and the truth will get out there. Find another way to deal with whatever it is this time.

Coldfeet
New York

NOT credible. The source (the US government) has a history of fabricating evidence and inventing facts to justify wars with other countries. This can be confirmed through the archives of this newspaper -- cf: Iraq War. Without independent confirmation of all assertions made by the United States government anything Holder says about this affair is meaningless.

KQ
GA

Obama picking a fight with Pakistan over Haqqani.
Now picking a fight with Iran.
"It is the ECONOMY Mr. Obama"
We will see you November 2012

Pancho
Yuma Arizona

They're saying it reads like the script from a Hollywood movie. Yea, a bad movie. Why would Iranians come into the US to plot a murder? Why come to the US to hire assassins from Mexico?

Why not plot the murder from downtown Jerusalem to implicate the Israelis? Why not hire unemployed Americans to make the hit? Why not purchase AK-47's and thousands of rounds,legally, here in the US and do the job themselves? Why not hire Saudi students who are already in the country to make it look like dissident students who hate the Saudi monarchy? Make the students believe they're going to bomb the Israeli Embassy, then have a truck rigged with explosives creash into the Saudi embassy by a hand-picked driver. A few students would have to die in the explosion of course, in order to sell it, but they were never going to graduate from college, anyway.

Hey, maybe I should be writing Hollywood movie scripts!

Cloudy
San Francisco,CA

So the criminals they were supposedly trying to hire were really government agents in disguise? Sounds like another set-up in which one of our alphabet soup agencies tried to entrap Muslims into committing crimes, or at least expressing interest in doing so. And why would Iranians want to attack the Saudis? Aren't they all good pals these days? This has all the earmarks of a distraction hastily arranged for the press. And possibly an excuse to crack down on the current anti-war protest in Washington itself? Maybe that's getting embarrassing?

Mark Lebow
Milwaukee, WI

Does this mean war with Iran, while we're still at war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya?

Emmanuel
New York, NY, USA

How convenient... Just when Holder is under a subpoena for illegal gun running in Mexico. Just when Barry is so down in the polls his chance of being reelected look dim. Just after Russia and China humiliated the US in the UN Security Council last week. Mr Obama is preparing American public opinion for a fake war. A few cruise missiles launch on Iran. Another publicized assassination of an Iranian "nuclear scientist". This President is so fake it's hard to believe anything his administration does. The man who came under limelights three years with the whole world cheering is now a naked emperor. We just hope his desperation at beeing reelected doesn't take this country to the dogs more than it's already! By the way who's the champion of "targeted" assassinations, killing even its own citizens? Isn't it Barack Obama's United States?

Zuricher
New York, NY

I'm trying to understand what Iran would have to gain from perpetrating such an act...and I'm having a hard time thinking of anything. The timing is also suspicious, with the Wall Street protests gaining traction...Does this smell weird to anyone else?

nick
Skien,norway

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

Winemaster2
GA

This may all be true, but what purpose does it serve to advertise this at this time and place. When all it would accomplish is increase hostilities in the Middle East plus more military hardware sales.

Simon
Tampa

Quite frankly, I don't believe any of this for a second. Why on earth the Iranians bother? They could kill this envoy and many other Saudi envoys in the Middle East so easily. It feels like the Bush era warmongering all over again.

Winston Smith
Mesa, AZ

When in doubt, follow the money and it will lead you to the culprit. First, I find the timing of this here purported incident incredibly interesting. The Saudis (under the US direction and with its weapons) have invaded not only Bahrain but also Yemen where they are slaughtering scores of civilians under Hillary Clinton's watchful eye. Second, as the UN vote on the Palestinian bids nears, Israel finds itself more and more with its back against the wall.

But, of course, I'm Joe Q. Stupid here and I believe what my government via its state media the NYT tell me. Let's go to war! Yeah! Iran got oil besides it will make our Zionist masters sooooooooooo happy!

War, war, war, war, war, war, war, war, war!

Concerned Citizen
New York, NY

Now, who can doubt that if McCain had been President this would have meant war with Iran?

Idi Malink
USA

America exhibits quite a bit of hubris after assassinating one of its own citizens without indictment, trial or conviction twelve days ago. It takes excessive pride to extrajudiciously assassinate a citizen and then complain about foreigners plotting to assassinate other foreigners.

_____________________

HOW MANY/WHICH OF THE ABOVE COMMENTS WERE MADE BY PEOPLE INSIDE THE SECURITY APPARATUS?

Why are traders called "rogues" when the financial institution loses money, but not when the entire nation gets destroyed?

2011-10-11T14:23:00.000-07:00

UBS Blames $2 Billion Loss on Rogue Trader
The struggling Swiss bank said that a rogue trader in its investment bank had lost $2 billion. A European equities trader, Kweku Adoboli, was arrested in London in connection with the case.

Traders run amok are often sentenced to pay restitution, in addition to serving jail time or forgoing any future dealings in the securities industry. But few have been held responsible for an I.O.U. as large as the one a French court pinned on Jérôme Kerviel on Tuesday: $6.7 billion.

John M. Rusnak pleaded guilty in 2002 to faking trades in order to hide nearly $700 million in losses through rogue trades of Japanese yen for Allfirst Financial, which was then a subsidiary of Allied Irish Banks.

Mr. Rusnak worked hard to keep his wrongdoing a secret. At one point, in order to trick auditors, he was said to have posed as a fictitious trader, David Russell, with whom he supposedly had dealings. He pulled it off by renting a box at a Mail Boxes Etc. on the Upper West Side in Manhattan; when bank auditors wanted to verify his trades with the supposed Mr. Russell, Mr. Rusnak had them write to that mailbox, where he then replied as if he were the fictitious trader.

Allied Irish Banks sold Allfirst Financial to the M&T Bank Corporation of Buffalo shortly after the scandal came to light. Mr. Rusnak, for his part, was released from federal prison last year and has remained out of the headlines since then.

¶ Earning clever nicknames.The Sumitomo Corporation of Japan in 1996 lost $2.6 billion because of a rogue trader, Yasuo Hamanaka, the chief of the company’s copper trading operations. Before his rogue trades became public, he had earned the nickname “Mr. 5 Percent” — referring to the share of the world’s copper market he was said to control.

Mr. Hamanaka pleaded guilty to forgery and fraud and was jailed until 2005. Paying homage to what made him famous, he told Bloomberg News upon his release that he was “amazed” at how the price of copper had risen while he was incarcerated.

¶ Making the best-seller list. In the mid-1990s, Daiwa Bank lost more than $1 billion as a result of a rogue New York-based bond trader, Toshihide Iguchi. Mr. Iguchi was sentenced to four years in prison, which he told The Wall Street Journal was less painful than the life of deceit he was living as a rogue trader trying to cover his tracks.

While in prison, he wrote a memoir, “The Confession,” that was widely read in Japan. But after settling in Georgia upon his release, the only work Mr. Iguchi could find was a $10-an-hour job at a furniture-building shop, so he eventually headed back to Japan, where he opened an English school, The Journal reported in 2008.

But Mr. Kerviel’s case brought back bad memories. Mr. Iguchi told The Journal that shortly after the French trader was accused, he had nightmares about his own rogue trading.

¶ Going Hollywood. Nicholas W. Leeson, a trader for the British investment bank Barings, managed to topple his bank in 1995 as a result of his rogue trading. Based in Singapore, Mr. Leeson lost more than $1 billion through ill-fated bets on Japanese stock prices and interest rates.

Mr. Leeson pleaded guilty in Singapore to fraud and forgery and served four years in prison. He is now the chief executive of an Irish soccer club, Galway United.

But perhaps best of all, Mr. Leeson managed to carve for himself a place in popular culture. He commanded a reported $700,000 advance for a ghostwritten memoir, “Rogue Trader” (1997), and more recently published a self-help book, “Back from the Brink: Coping With Stress” (2005).

His first book was made into a 1999 film starring Ewan McGregor. The film, like Mr. Leeson’s trading practices, was widely panned.

¶ Putting a spin on things. Joseph Jett, a former trader for Kidder, Peabody & Company, was said to have gone rogue in a decidedly modern way: he was accused of taking advantage of a glitch in his firm’s computer system to record his trades as profitable, even if they weren’t. While Mr. Jett was never charged criminally, Kidder blamed him in 1994 for $350 million in losses and dismissed him from the firm.

Mr. Jett maintained his innocence, and he still works in finance, serving as the chief executive of Jett Capital Management, according to its Web site. The site speaks proudly of his time at Kidder.

_______________________________

FURIOUS
USA

But you know what, banks don't need regulations. They can police themselves.

If any organization leaves this much power in the hands of one person, and if that organization has been deemed too big to fail, I dare you to try and tell me you do not deserve to be regulated.

Sorry all you fancy bankers...you can explain it however you want.

In the end, you are nothing but gamblers who thing you have figured out ways to game a system that you cannot control or predict with anywhere near the accuracy you think you can.

Any yes, you have money, power and prestige. But you'll never get respect from people who do actual work, like creating music and art or teaching. To us, you are as shameful as a gambling addict trying one more time to rationalize why you "don't have a problem."

MOUSE WOMAN OF THE NORTHWEST COAST
WASHINGTON STATE

Why are traders called "rogues" when the financial institution loses money, but not when the entire nation gets destroyed? Why do they get arrested when their employer is hurt, but not when they wreck the economy?

Just askin'...

CHRIS
PEORIA, AZ

No need to regulate banks. Regulations just get in the way of their gambling for profits and big bonuses. And if the gambling doesn't work out, public funds are available to bail them out because they are too big to fail.

Any questions?

CHUPACABRE
TEXAS

Who gives a 31 year old person 2 billion dollars?

FANON
SF

But how can we make this the fault of teachers and unions?

SOCRATES
DOWNTOWN VERONA NJ

Alan Greenspan was wrong on many counts, but especially in his comments that "you can't regulate greed."

You can regulate greed with thoughtful public policy, enforcement of laws, and prison terms for the sociopathic narcissists who dominate Wall Street and the banking industry.

Banking used to be a respectable profession; it is now a disgrace because the industry got greedy and successfully bribed our Senators, Congressmen and President into repealing Glass Steagall.

Greed must be regulated.

MAURIZIO
NEW YORK

Would love to have been on the other side of that trade!

CITIZENBTV
VERMONT

The third law of thermodynamics applies fairly well to financial transactions. It's nice to think that money was destroy here, but in truth it moved from one bank to another. We know who the loser was. Who were the winners in this fiasco?

IBSTEVE2U
COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

Gotta love the inference that shareholder value is going to take a hit, but not to worry: No clients got hurt.

The markets of the West have a two-tiered structure in place: Big money clients get to gamble and reap the majority of the rewards while every effort is made to shield them from loss by ensuring that only the money of retail investors, the shareholders, and/or the taxpayers is ever at risk.

And to think that it those same big money clients who anonymously fund so much of the right-wing propaganda that attempts to link any government action on behalf of the general citizenry with "socialism"...

MEMI
CANADA

"Derivatives in the foreign exchange market which are worth an estimated 4 trillion dollars a day"

There you have it. With that kind of money made simply by pushing it around, does anyone think the unregulated industry is benefitting anyone other than bankers, traders, and the already rich?

Wasn't the financial market created to service the greater economy? Why is THAT not a priority anymore? It seems the lenders aren't lending anymore. There is much too much being made by this kind of trading and regulating it will grossly interfere with its capacity to generate profit, which is against the law. Is it not? I know, we in Canada signed a free trade agreement that stipulates we cannot curtail the profits of any company that wishes to plunder our resources.

Why are we so afraid of bringing these crooks to their knees? Too big to fail? They don't do anything for almost 95% of us. They don't help anyone but themselves, so what's the worst that could happen? We regulate them, curtail their profits, stop buying into the notion the world will crumble if we don't let them do whatever they want, and take back our economies.

Trillions of dollars a day! How much of that is trickled down and how much do we at the bottom enjoy being trickled upon? Regulate this industry or face a revolution. That's the choice I see and I am not alone in my estimation.

is economics losing its religion status?

2011-10-10T20:00:00.000-07:00

2 American Professors Awarded Nobel in Economic ScienceBack to Article »
By CATHERINE RAMPELL
Thomas J. Sargent and Christopher A. Sims, two Americans, won the Nobel economics prize on Monday “for their empirical research on cause and effect in the macroeconomy.”

7.
Nerd
New York, NY
October 10th, 2011
9:07 am
It's not a Nobel Prize. It's a Nobel Memorial Prize, and it is not one of the real Nobel Prizes as created by Alfred himself. It's just a prize created by economists to try to legitimatize their "science."
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3.
Jim Tavegia
Atlanta
October 10th, 2011
8:30 am
How could any American win any award concerning this economy, or their take on macroeconomics. There is not a academic or politician who knows anything about fixing this economy. And to think they are going to make money off of their award is almost ludicrous.

The world economy is spiraling into the toilet and it is clear that what is being taught in Universities around the globe is wrong-headed. but, go ahead and pat your selves on the back. That is the way the system works.
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6.
gonzobaires
Buenos Aires
October 10th, 2011
9:07 am
The prize is given to people who creates theoretical models for some specific issue, not to people who "solves" problems. They can predict things, for example, that if you get robbed you end up broke, but they cannot stop a bunch of criminals to rob your money.
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10.
joena lopez
Manila
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
Economists have no clue how the world works . And they have no idea how to cure some of the economic maladies that besiege the world. They keep on churning out useless models and quantitative methods. The guy who heads the Federal Reserve was supposed to know everything about depression and recession and was supposed to be the greatest authority in the world about economic crises. See his performance . You know what? They have no clues--these people keep on patting each other for useless models and call each others' works breakthrough. It is time to call spade a spade: the emperor has no clothes. It is time to stop this charade called Nobel Prize in economics!
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1.
Paul
New Jersey
October 10th, 2011
8:30 am
How refreshing and timely in this age of political spin: an attempt to enforce methodical analysis on macroeconomics and to identify cause and effect.
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4.
J.Lee
Seoul, Korea
October 10th, 2011
8:34 am
Is fine math the substitute of the explanatory power? The world is in danger of possible depression created by the casino capitalism. These economists have nothing to say about that. They are saying people are unemployed out of their choice. Math cannot mask nonsense.
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13.
waynehs
norwalk, ct.
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
It's fascinating that so many Americans over the years have won the Nobel Prize in economics. Yet the US economy (along with much of the rest of world) is a horrible mess.
Is there a positive correlation between the more Nobel Prize winning economists a country has and the worse its economy is?
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5.
Steve Bolger
New York, NY
October 10th, 2011
9:07 am
So, will they be able to explain to us why zero percent interest rates don't work as advertized to stimulate anything?
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22.
Zoku
NJ
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
The two important economists illustrate through there brilliant work, the difference between Supply Side(Trickle Down)Economics -vs- The New Keynesian(Demand Side)Economics. Clearly it is time for Demand Side economics to be given a chance. The rich do not like this idea because it would stop them from having many taxpayer subsidies given to them for simply supplying goods and only as many jobs as demands for those goods will allow. As can be seen plainly by the average person, demand is down, so supply is not being bought because, there is no money for the average josephine/joe to spend!
Therefore, people who manufacture those goods, those who outsourced for cheap labor overseas, are now laying off their cheap labor..Because DEMAND IS DOWN. The ECONOMY IS CRASHING WORLD WIDE. This must be stopped! It can be halted by supplying workers with jobs and therefore money to purchase goods. Government investment to infrastructure and education and green jobs is the quickest way to get the engines of the economy turning again. When will our Nobel Prize winning president begin to really tough actions to get people back to work and at a living wage?
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16.
Kurnewal
Carmel, New York
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
How anyone can call economics a science or even a useful enterpise is beyond me when the sorry cycle of boom and bust that has always plagued capitalism continues unabated, making millions suffer. Might as well be giving Nobel prizes for religion.
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19.
Katie
Montana
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
The good news: the commenters above aren't on the Nobel committee.
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15.
me
NYC
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
Now that was my best laugh of the day. Really? An award - for both of these geniuses? Really?
So why are they not able to apply their knowledge to our economy?
And Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize and we are in too many wars to count and we drone kill as a sport - oh yes, we kill them so they don't have to go to Gitmo. Makes perfect sense.
Got to love those awards.
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28.
Ken
New York, NY
October 10th, 2011
10:11 am
Frankly I cannot believe some of the comments so far which indicate a complete ignorance of the value of economic science. These two economoists are working to try and explain what is happening and find a way forward. They are neigher villans nor magicians, but clear thinkers who are working to understand how modern, global economies function in order to guide sensible policy, something that has certainly been lacking in American political discourse lately.
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42.HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Martin
Vermont
October 10th, 2011
11:59 am
As many of the previous comments point out, the mathematical models that these people build have little use in the real world. In fact they are dangerous. This is the work that enabled the practitioners of "economic science", which is no science at all, to drive our economy over the cliff while stuffing their pockets with money.

For examples see Robert Rubin's Citibank, or Long Term Capital Management, or Harvard's endowment with Larry Summers at the school's helm (El-Erian had to abandon ship). All of these people helped to lose billions but were very richly rewarded.

If you have any doubt that these people are dangerous to your financial well-being, it is time to re-read Nassim Taleb's book "The Black Swan".

It will be a brighter day when the Bank of Sweden awards the prize to Taleb himself in a final gesture before disbanding their committee.
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31.
Mike
Southern California
October 10th, 2011
10:11 am
This award is nothing but a popularity contest among self-important academics. Its quite obvious given today's economic mess that Economics has become the lost science. But hey, that's an elegant equation gentlemen.
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2.
Kevin
Washington, DC
October 10th, 2011
8:30 am
Great, maybe they can figure out how to get out of this economic mess we're in.
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8.HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Ignacio Vera
New York
October 10th, 2011
10:09 am
Recognizing the work of Sargent and Sims was due for a long, long time. Two thumbs up to the Noble Committee.
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14.
thomas vesely
australia
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
obama deploys predator drones, gets the peace prize.
american economists deploy global poverty, get an economic prize.
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9.
Lizbethem
Massachusetts
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
Oh the irony!
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25.
K Henderson
NYC
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
sorry but 'academic economists' = bunk.

Let's just call them Math professors, which is closer to the truth and closer to the academic work that they are actually doing.
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69.HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Robert Campos
Princeton, NJ
October 10th, 2011
12:21 pm
I'm taking a class with Professor Sims right now and he is very knowledgeable about what's happening in today's economic climate. He is not a politician, so while he may know what the cause and effect is for macro-level economic prosperity, it is politicians and their distributive (or not so distributive) fiscal policies that governs who benefits from our economy and the Fed's monetary changes. Zero interest rates do not work the same way as they used to because we now pay interest on reserves. There is no more money multiplier anymore. Can you imagine? There's your answer, Steve Bolger. Overall, Ignacio Vera is right - Sims and Sargent were long overdue for this prize. Congrats to these brilliant scholars. Ignore other commenters jaded and bitter trolling due to their short-comings and failures as human beings. These professors deserve it.
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18.
JD
Ohio
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
I really am not qualified to comment on the quality of the winner's work. However, the fact that they received the Nobel prize does not give them any extra credibility to me. They join such "worthy" Nobel winners as Obama and Al Gore. Additionally, the award of the prize to Paul Krugman in retrospect seems to be mistaken based on extremist attacks on those who oppose his ideology. (For instance, he has claimed that those who opposed drastic CO2 limitations are traitors.)

JD
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12.
Shiela
The Woodlands, TX
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
Mr. Sims, who has won a prize for his excellent research on the subject, will not proffer an opinion on how to get us out of this economic mess (he says he doesn't have an answer!) Shall we then consider the opinions of those in the Obama administration-- or anywhere else-- who are patently less expert on the subject?
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23.
DB
NYC
October 10th, 2011
10:10 am
This is like a bad Saturday Night Live skit. This is for "empirical" research done 30 or 40 years ago? What this really tells me is that 1)we have no actual research economists anymore as they are all political shills like Krugman and 2)that the Nobel Prize is a joke. I guess we all knew that when Obama won for saying "Hope and Change" with just the right timbre.
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32.HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Bert Gold
Frederick, Maryland
October 10th, 2011
10:15 am
No offense intended to the two honorable academics selected, but I think this is a poor choice at this time. Macroeconomics is akin to weather forecasting (but without the radar). It is reasoning based on 'natural experiments'. One can't do a macroeconomic experiment without full government cooperation (when does that ever happen?). One of the theories of Sims is a staunch government-must-balance-budgets at all costs, theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_theory_of_the_price_level
So, this is a political prize. A reward for capitalists in an arcane area where no objective predictions are possible except in the case of a serendipitous natural experiment that emulates our current state.

I was hopeful that the rumors were true and that Paul Romer would be rewarded for helping us to understand the role of Technology in economies. But, such a wise choice this committee did not make.
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The US social scientists are still g(r)azing

2011-10-08T16:53:00.000-07:00

The Diabolical Hand – Joseph Vogl on the Demystification of the Market

Despite all the crises that have shaken the world economy and financial system, the idea still appears to be widespread that the market is not only a place of rational adjustment but also of self-stabilizing forces. Large parts of economics and finance are based on this assumption. In his essay “Das Gespenst des Kapitals” (The Spectre of Capital), Joseph Vogl analyses our knowledge of the economy and asks, how in the face of the crises of the market can we speak of the economic world as a sensible and rational system? The capitalist economic system is based on the idea that the market economy is self-regulative and develops self-stabilizing forces. According to the theory, supply and demand are adjusted to one another by the price and goods are efficiently and justly distributed. The state should intervene only in the case of so-called market failure, as for example with cultural institutions. Apart from these exceptions, the market economy is regarded as the most efficient form of the organization of exchange relations. Crises are explained not by causes within the system itself, but by market-external factors such as mistaken economic policy.

Competition in all areas of life

The influential idea of a self-regulating, rational market is at the center of Jospeh Vogl’s essay. To sum up this idea he coins the term “ecodicy”, alluding to the term “theodicy”, which Leibniz coined in the eighteenth century to describe the doctrine that justifies the omnipotence of God despite all the calamity and obvious evil of the world. Vogl describes how economics, borrowing from theology, has built up a comprehensive doctrine of justification that, despite all economic and financial crises, still defends the idea of market development based on reason.
And defends it with enormous success: the dominance of this hardly questioned idea has led, Vogl believes, to the biggest “mass social experiment” of the present, the transfer of the principle of competition to all sector of society. Since the free market is seen as the guarantee for the efficient distribution of resources, non-economic areas such as the health and education sector have also increasingly been organized in accordance with market principles and man subjected to the economic perspective in all his social relations.

The beginnings of ecodicy

Vogl shows that the rational market is above all a powerful idea and not a description of reality by tracing the emergence of this idea in the economic discourse of the eighteenth century. Ecodicy finds its still best known metaphors especially in the writings of the Scottish moral philosopher Adam Smith: like an “invisible hand”, writes Smith in his Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, the market adjusts the selfish interests of individuals and turns them to the common good.
According to Smith and economic theory in his wake, this constant desire for harmony is a natural law of society. More: the market first brings forth society. The capitalist economic order is therefore not only the best conceivable order, but also the morally imperative one. To the state falls the sole task of ensuring ideal market conditions. It should never intervene in market activity – not even with good intentions.

“The future is always already priced in”

Since the days of Adam Smith, however, the economy has changed fundamentally. Vogl describes how the circulation of fiat money as global currency and the abolition of fixed exchange rates for currency in the 1970s gave birth to the modern finance economy, through which value creation was possible not merely by the production of goods but alone through money. Endless concatenations of debts finance present investments at the expense of the future. Ever more complex financial instruments make scarcely intelligible transactions profitable, a process that Vogl, using the example of futures trading, describes as follows: “Someone who does not have a commodity, and neither expects to have nor wants to have it, sells this commodity to someone who expects to have or wants to have it as little as does the seller, and does not in fact receive it”.
Because financial markets are constrained to speculation by future price developments, there has been a feverish search since the 1970s for formulas to calculate future market trends. This “Nobel Prize-winning transformation of guessing games into the science of finance” transfers the idea of a rational market of commodity goods to financial markets. Calculations of this sort are possible at all only on the assumption that market movements are subject to internal laws and do not operate in a completely arbitrary manner. The contemporary study of finance teaches that the regulation of supply and demand, decisive for the balance of the market, is secured by the calculation of risks: investments regarded as safe have the prospect of only low profits, since they are expensive; risky investments, on the other hand, promise high returns. “The future”, as Vogl puts it, “is always already factored into the price”.

The perfect storm – the end of ecodicy?

But there are crucial differences between commodity markets and financial markets: the latter, exactly because of the element of speculation, compel conformity. Rising stock prices lead not to a decline in demand, but rather to its further increase. Falling prices, on the other hand, increase the flight from the affected stocks and accelerate the crash.
Thus “price fluctuations on financial markets” lead “to rational adjustment reactions; these in turn to coherent orders; and these finally, through positive feedback, to a ‘perfect storm’”. The influential equilibrium theorem of classical economics is turned into its opposite: the market mechanism does not turn the actions of individuals in a positive direction, as Adam Smith maintained; on the contrary, financial markets produce “systematic irrationality through rational decision-making processes”. So seen, crises are not anomalies, but part of the system and consequently inevitable. Alluding to Smith’s image of the invisible hand, Vogl writes: “If here the effectiveness of an invisible hand is in play, then it is of diabolical nature”.
The stability of our economies crucially depends on the smooth functioning of the financial markets. The globalized economy, however, can hardly any longer be politically controlled – as a result of the extensive deregulation measures of the 1980s, which were possible only on the basis of the faith in a self-regulative market. The lack of political influence stands in sharp disproportion to the distribution of risks: everyone must bear the costs of saving the financial system. This configuration, urges Vogl, must be opposed, and to that purpose we urgently need a demystification of the market and the end of ecodicy.

Anja Riedeberger is a cultural and media scholar and works at the Goethe Institut in the Science, Scholarship and Current Events Department. Translation: Jonathan Uhlaner

democracy is overrated

2011-09-28T21:28:00.000-07:00

As Scorn for Vote Grows, Protests Surge Around Globe
By NICHOLAS KULISH
Protesters around the world have something in common: wariness, even contempt, toward traditional politicians and the democratic political process they preside over.

“Our parents are grateful because they’re voting,” said Marta Solanas, 27, referring to older Spaniards’ decades spent under the Franco dictatorship. “We’re the first generation to say that voting is worthless.”
__________________________________

Isaiah Earhart
Seattle

Why is the NYT coverage of international protests so much more robust than their protest coverage of the very appropriate protest occupation of our own Wall Street.The Times has even given the protesters the aura of dignity and thoughtfulness. I am glad to read it. The protesters deserve it.

Capitalism will, by its own mathematical certainty, will concentrate vast wealth at the very top for the least moral among us. Democracy has been completely circumvented by huge corporations and the sociopaths that run them. I hope this inevitable change from this predatory system to a system that values the human being and our Earth's vital commons is a peaceful transition.

Meanwhile, we need another party to vote for.

sethwulsin
Cartagena

The headline for this article is extremely misleading, making it look like the protesters scorn the principle of voting, when it is the corruption of the voting process - the undermining of the vote, that protesters are fed up with.

SteveBrant
Los Angeles, CA

I love this very thorough article. Yes, there are protests against corrupt systems that don't really represent the people in countries all over the world... even in the largest democracy on the planet. People now realize that after they vote, the politicians they elect don't really take care of them. Those politicians take care of the very wealthy, who really run the country.

Of course, in the most famous democracy on the planet - the USA - there are no such protests, because our elected representatives always put "we the people" first.

Oh, but wait a minute... there are people protesting here in the USA! And for the same reasons too!

In the heart of Capitalism (Wall Street), we have Occupy Wall Street ( http://occupywallst.org/ )

And the protests have spread to Chicago ( http://occupychi.org/ )

And they're spreading to Boston ( http://occupybos.wordpress.com/ )

And they're spreading to California ( http://occupyca.wordpress.com/ )

And perhaps other locations too.

Yes, Nicholas Kulish and the rest of staff of The New York Times... people all over the world are fed up with no longer being represented by the people in their governments.

Even here in the USA!

Dan
Madrid

"these protesters share something else: wariness, even contempt, toward traditional politicians and the democratic political process they preside over. "

Protesters feel contempt towards the so-called, supposedly democratic political process. Protesters are angry at the farcical nature of a system which pretends to represent the interests of ordinary people, but really constantly and zealously subordinates those interests to those of corporations and rich people.

Sylvanus
New York

What has coincided with the spread of this disillusionment? The spread of neoliberal policies, that, in effect, place the wealthy and large, international corporations in charge, worldwide. No state can effectively contest them. Indeed, governments, while nominally democratic, become captives of finance. (See the writings of Simon Johnson, former chief economist of the IMF.) Globalization, with no boundaries related to environmental or labor regulation, frees capital from ability of nation states to control it. If corporations don't like a state's policies, whether regulation of capital or the environment or labor laws protecting workers, financiers threaten to leave and take their capital with them. 400 families in the US now control as much wealth as the bottom 40-50 percent of US citizens. One billionaire in Mexico possesses as much wealth as 150 million Mexicans. The same pattern increasingly applies worldwide. Thus the similarity of the complaints of citizens worldwide.

Josh
Santa Barbara, CA

I have little respect for the system because it is corrupted beyond words by moneyed interests. The game is not fair, anywhere, and while it will never be perfect, powerful institutions in the most free country in the world are consolidating wealth, destroying societal progress, and making it so the rules continue to be written in their favor, regardless of how inexplicably disconnected from the public interest and public opinion this might happen to be. An injustice this massive and profound requires some feathers to be ruffled. You will not get away with this, This is OUR country, and we are going to reclaim it. You may not hear us yet, and can try to ignore us, but we're not going away. See you on Wall Street in a few weeks. Maybe by then, the Times will give this rising domestic outcry the attention it deserves.

Gayle
Vermont

I was there for the civil rights movement. I was there for the anti-war movement. I was there for the women's march on the Pentagon...and then for two decades I got co-opted into believing the system was actually gonna work for me. Now, I'm almost sixty, unemployed for three years with a husband who just lost his job through an e-mail. Our health insurance is $800 a month, and he gets $160 a week in unemployment. Well guess what we've got? Time. I stand in solidarity with those on Wall Street and am ashamed that it took this long to bring me back to the essential truth of what this country is about. Unbridled corporate greed.

pdxtran
Minneapolis

Taking part in the 2004 campaign of a presidential candidate who thought and spoke outside the box was quite a disillusioning experience. We had to beg and plead for local press coverage, and it was only through relentless guerrilla marketing that we gave this candidate his best national showing, 17% of the caucus vote.

National media, including the New York Times, mentioned him as a footnote or carried articles ridiculing him. Yet he drew increasingly large crowds in my area, and if I had received a dollar for every time someone told me, "I love him, but he can't win," I could have afforded a nice vacation.

I always knew this candidate was a long shot, but what left a bitter taste was the way the media and his own party disrespected him.

To top it off, John Kerry, whom I did work hard for, seemed less interested in investigating possibly election fraud in Ohio than his own volunteers and the minor parties were. He conceded while people were still standing in line in Ohio.

In 2007, I saw the national media pretend that only Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were running for the Democratic nomination, and this was before a single caucus or primary vote had been cast. I knew then that these were the two candidates the powers that be found socially acceptable. I almost voted 3rd party, except that I didn't want Sarah Palin within striking distance of the White House.

The more I see of American politics, the more I believe that it's all theater on the national level. Politicians are playing good cop/bad cop with the American people, but in the end, the right-wingers always seem to get most of what they want.

Almost all politicians seem out of touch with the everyday concerns of the American people, the most striking current example being their obsession with the deficit as millions are unemployed.

The demonstrations are an attempt to hit the politicians and bigwigs with a figurative two-by-four. There doesn't seem to be any other way to attract their attention.

Dave K
Cleveland, OH

To quote trader Alessio Rastani on the BBC on Monday:
"What I would say to everybody is 'get prepared'. This is not a time right now to ... uh ... wishful thinking the government is going to sort things out. The governments don't rule the world. Goldman Sachs rules the world."

When financial insiders are saying things like that, how could anyone have anything but disillusionment about the democratic process?

The only time real progress has been made for working people, both in the US and in foreign countries, is when they have taken to the streets, threatening to shut things down completely in a general strike unless they got what they needed. That's how Americans won the 40-hour work week, the minimum wage, OSHA, and the right to collectively bargain. So why would the 'paper of record' argue that it's in We The People's interest to do anything else?

Maxomus
New York

I for one am not frightened, but encouraged by this article. Justified civil unrest, which somehow is held in utter contempt here in New York by our own police force and much of the well-heeled citizenry, is the seed for a global revolution—their worst fear—TRUE equality for all. Change on a global level is being empowered (and orchestrated) by the Internet, somewhat, but more so by poverty, unemployment, hunger (1 in 4 American children go to bed hungry) and lack of fulfillment in life—the true driving force behind this movement. Availability of truthful information is now accessible to everyone, no longer a private toy of the ultra-wealthy to manipulate world markets (and its people) with.

What is it we seek? Honesty among our leaders? Sorry, too late for that—we assumed for too long at the voting booth that they would work to maintain our society while improving our lives, and have our best interests at heart. Our governments have failed us; they are owned by thoroughly corrupt private interest groups, and so patriotism will take on its true meaning, as promised in our Constitution: a governing body OF the people, FOR the people and BY the people, as the Western governments are beginning to behave like the garbled tongues at the Tower of Babel. What is unfolding before us on YouTube is the Family of Man in action—we are in touch with each other, we empathize and take action against famine in Somalia, unjust government practices in the U.S. and in India, Israel—anywhere where corruption has put a chokehold on ordinary life. Humanity endures abuse until it becomes unbearable—and it is unbearable for me as a compassionate man, raised and tutored by Franciscan nuns— to know that 25% of our children are hungry while the upper 5% consume 40% of available goods. This will not be tolerated by honest folks for much longer.

Peter
Kenosha, WI

The whole world is a mess. The comments I see here daily and in other newspapers will soon spill out into the streets, in the USA too. Obama is just an empty suit while the Republicans will stop at nothing, even pushing the whole nation off a cliff in order to bring him down.

In Europe the euro currency has become a "too big to fail" project -- a political Trojan horse for the unelected Eurocrats smoking their bong pipes behind the closed doors in Brussels to cement their pipe dream of political and economic union in Europe, never mind that Europe is a geographic entity and not a cultural or a political one and that the people don't want it anyway.

What I fear is that somewhere soon, a young-ish intelligent charismatic person with long term malignant goals and the will to carry them out will appear. A Hitler like figure. The times are ripe for that person.

Elizabeth
Florida

Maybe everything in life is cyclical because if you read history and life in the 17th 18th and 19th centuries you get an eerie feeling that what we are witnessing with the hijacking of government by the uber wealthy is a "back to the future, let 'em eat cake" reality.

We could have seen it coming if we were not blinded by the small trickle that flowed to us from the corporate barons and the self serving elected officials. That trickle was easy credit which fooled us into thinking that we are on the rise and we are one of them. How insane it is for example that in this country if you close your credit accounts or do not use them it goes against your credit rating!!!!

I for one am heartened by what is happening although I hesitate to say I know how it will end (the French revolution is swirling in my head.)

In his poem Morte D'Arthur, Lord Tennyson wrote: "The old order changeth, Yielding place to the new, And God fulfills Himself in many ways, Lest one good custom should so corrupt the world."

That "good custom" - capitalism - has corrupted the world. Unchecked, not monitored, ruled by a few is corosive and needs to be brought into balance.

random voices

2011-09-27T22:53:00.000-07:00

A Knack for Bashing Orthodoxy
By MICHAEL POWELL
The Oxford don, a liberal atheist who is arguably the world’s most influential evolutionary biologist, continues to turn the prevailing view of evolution and natural selection on its head.

HG
Califormia

According to Karl Popper's definition of science, Evolutionary Biology is not science in the sense that it is not falsifiable. The theory cannot be examined by controlled experiments.

The very fact that Prof. Gould and Prof. Dawkins cannot agree with each other is evidence that evolutionary biology is not as rigorous a science as Physics. Even Physicists dare not refute the possible existence of God the first cause. I am amazed by Mr. Dawkins's audacious claim that his theory refutes the existence of God.

Refuting the literal story of Genesis is not a difficult task. Anyone with common sense will know that there is no way Noah can have the engineering know-how to build the arc, let along preserve all forms of living beings. Can anyone build the arc with today's technology?

It is a trap for rational, secular minds when reading the Bible. It is easy to say: "How can anyone with basic intelligence believe this literally?" Well, metaphorically, it makes sense to many people. And that doesn't make them stupid.

Dawkins's fundamental pitfall is that he believes whoever disagrees with him is stupid. From what I know, this is not the feature of a top-notch thinker. All top thinkers I know are humble because the more you learn, the more you realize the limit of human knowledge.

________________________

Stocks Decline a Day After Fed Sets Latest Stimulus Measure
By GRAHAM BOWLEY and CHRISTINE HAUSER
Investor pessimism about the outlook for the United States and European economies was deepened by weak data for the euro zone and a grim assessment from the Federal Reserve.

James J. Connolly
Waterford, Connecticut

The world economic system is now in free fall, folks. First time since the 1930s.

The folks at the controls (banks, the Fed, Democrats, Republicans, EU, IMF) have no idea what they are doing.

The man behind the curtain is panicking, and he has reason to do so.

Prepare for 30 percent unemployment nationwide, mass layoffs of public employees, and a nationwide moratorium on future foreclosures as Obama's main campaign platform for 2012.

Stop the nonsense about a double recession.

The Second Great Depression is here.

Capitalism is in its death throes, and the subservient governments of Europe and North America have failed to prop it up after trying every trick in their books.

anges
Midwest

Perhaps the Fed's own thrashing about on monetary policy contributes to "spooking" the economy. After an heroic response to the events of the autumn of 2008 during which Bernanke helped prevent a catastrophic worldwide economic meltdown, the Fed has since started one horse after the next, all of which have keeled over well before the finish line.

We had QE and then QE2 and now the "Twist" and several other perturbations of the money supply. None of this has done a bit of good - and no wonder. The economic problems are endemic: over-reliance on consumerism, massive private and government debt, uncompetetive labor costs, a failing educational system, a stupendous system of entitlements and public pension costs -- on the state level especially -- that cannot be honored. All these lie at the root of our economic problems and there is no way out other than austerity, frugality, a reduction in labor costs and a rationalization of our balance sheets. The Fed has, instead, sought a magic solution to our ills, a "Hey, Presto!" monetary gimmick (e.g. ultra-low interest rates) that will cause everything to spring back to prosperity -- as if the past thirty years of foolishness never occurred.

The best thing the Fed can do now is -- nothing. Let interest rates rise to where the genuine demand for money puts them and quit goosing the money supply. At the moment, it is impossible to adequately assess risk and credit requirements because the money markets are so distorted by the Fed's incessant thrashing and magical thinking.

We all owe Mr. Bernanke a debt of gratitude for his actions three years ago. But, he needs to stop his Ben the Great magic act so that we can, as a nation and as individuals, address our real problems. These problems are real, profound and pervasive -- and they cannot be solved by monetary gimmicks.

Suzanne
Florida

Large corporations keep saying they don't understand why their stocks are so depressed: bookings look just fine for the next 18-24 months. Yet the media screams that the sky is falling. Why am I starting to get the notion that this "whole recession thing" is some gigantic scam? Who is making the money or otherwise profiting from this psychologically induced recession? Yes, it sounds like a crack-brained conspiracy theory, but there are a number of ways to deal with credit and demand issues constructively and NO ONE is doing it. Have I been viewing the class warfare too myopically? Are the masses in the process of losing the last battle, while never having known they were involved in a war until recently?
This isn't the death throes of capitalism, but it may be the death throes of democracy.

Boat52
Naples, FL

"We all owe Mr. Bernanke a debt of gratitude for his actions three years ago." No we don't because he didn't do anything other than debase the currency, inflict significant damage millions of savers who have witnessed the vanishing of their interest income, and dump huge sums onto to bankers so that they could earn bonuses even greater than before the financial crisis. The above statement should read: "Bankers all owe a debt of gratitude for his actions." It is time for a regime change at The Fed and a return to an interest rate environment that rewards capital formation and savings rather than one that stimulates more debt accumulation.

___________________________

WikiLeaks’ Founder, in a Gilded British Cage
By DAVID CARR
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is more hunted than hunter these days, an itinerant with no permanent address save for a country manor provided by a former British journalist.

Martin
New York

Assange should get the Nobel prize. He has exposed more corruption and official crime than all the world's journalists of the past 10 years. And so of course they villify him or talk about personality. Wikileaks represents an enormous challenge to a press which has turned from exposing corruption to joining it, from informing to distracting and deceiving.

hn
london

We live in a police state where you can be "free" as long as you don't disturb the big Capital and the governments which main function is to protect the Banks and the big corporations. The war in Iraq started on a lie, as is well known now. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It seems that hundreds of thousands died because of that lie.

People are still dying there because of the false reasons given for the war. Iraq is a mess now but it is also a big source of profit for many American companies.   

Then comes Julian Assange, who was brave enough to publish documents about the war, revealing information that gave us a better idea of what happened during the war in Iraq. Better than anything the press did, actually.   And all this journalist can do is to write a cynical story portraying Assange as a paranoid, funny character. Assange is living the way he is so we could know more. He really deserves better than to be portrayed as a caricature.

caseycsw
13350

Assange is a modern day hero for exposing the murderous underside of the US corporate empire, and some day it will be recognized on a universal basis. For now we must endure NY Times articles portraying him as a seething and scheming Shakespearean figure, tragic because he has allowed himself to end up cornered in a "gilded cage". Actually, this article is more benign than most of the more sophisticated attacks on his reputation that the Times has deployed in the past. Just as the Gray Lady continues to ignore progressive opposition to the current state of affairs, while trumpeting the latest Tea Party sneeze almost as readily as Fox News, it occasionally stops to actually focus on left-wing demonstrations by bashing their intent and spirit altogether, such as in the wonderfully demeaning piece by Ginia Bellafante, "Gunning For Wall Street, With Faulty Aim"
(http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/nyregion/protesters-are-gunning-for-wa...
This, of course, is hardly surprising since many of the Wikileaks have pointed to the close bond between mainstream journalism and the corporate elites. Murdoch's hacking scandal is proof-positive. But it is truly sad to see the Gray Lady, once a staunch advocate for liberal and progressive causes, tied and bound by the sophisticated "right-wing lite" ideological wiring of her own gilded cage...

Jim Prince
New York

Dominique Straus Kahn goes free without a trial.

Barack Obama gets Nobel Peace Price with no qualification. Actually he is now blocking the freedom of Palestinians to have a free state and live in dignity.

You know they will get Julian Assange, one way or the other.

This is the new world order!

How can you tell we are in deep s...?

2011-09-13T04:28:00.000-07:00

...perhaps when we cannot pay the tips for the miscellaneous costs of flying prisoners.

EIGHTY-NINE QUESTIONS: WHAT DID LIBYA DO FOR THE C.I.A.?

by Amy Davidson

How many more ways can evidence of America’s rendition and torture practices come to light? Earlier this week, it was thanks to a dispute over who would pay for muffins, airphone calls, and a plane to fly prisoners to secret prisons. Now, it’s with papers in a binder marked “C.I.A.” found in one of Qaddafi’s offices in Tripoli. (Jon Lee Anderson was on the scene for The New Yorker.) What next—an Eastern European military officer’s divorce trial, an election campaign in Asia, an iPhone prototype left in a bar? (That’s another story.) A program that involved hiding people from our country’s laws and courts, and outsourcing their interrogation to willing torturers—including, according to the documents, Qaddafi—left traces scattered around the world, waiting to be stumbled upon. A way they haven’t been cataloged, though, is the way they should have been: through a true reckoning by our own government. Instead, President Obama decided, in effect, that what was done was done. But it isn’t.

The “C.I.A.” binder was accompanied by two marked “MI6,” and the office they were in belonged to a man the Times described as “Libya’s former spymaster.” The paper also noted that, in the circumstances, their authenticity was hard to verify. (The C.I.A.’s response was not exactly a denial: “It can’t come as a surprise that the Central Intelligence Agency works with foreign governments to help protect our country from terrorism and other deadly threats.”) Peter Bouckaert, the emergencies director of Human Rights Watch, sat down and read through the binders. There were talking points for Qaddafi, logistical details for flights, and what seems to have been the bartering of Qaddafi’s opponents, some of whom had ties to Islamist groups, for his cooperation. One of them is now a rebel leader.

All in all, there were “thousands of pieces of correspondence from US and UK officials,” according to the BBC, which then quoted Bouckaert:

It wasn’t just abducting suspected Islamic militants and handing them over to the Libyan intelligence…The CIA also sent the questions they wanted Libyan intelligence to ask and, from the files, it’s very clear they were present in some of the interrogations themselves.

Its dealings in Libya are not the C.I.A.’s only problem; nor is the C.I.A. the only problem. The Washington Post has two new pieces in its “Top Secret America” series that one should read. The first, by Julie Tate and Greg Miller, is on the C.I.A.’s shift away from learning things and toward killing people considered dangerous (and who makes that call?), with analysts becoming “targeters.” The other, by Dana Priest and William Arkin, is about the Pentagon’s Joint Special Operations Command, which has held some thousand prisoners “in jails that it alone controls in Iraq and Afghanistan.” (“We’re the dark matter. We’re the force that orders the universe but can’t be seen,” a SEAL told the Post.) The “C.I.A.” binder in Tripoli included “a list of 89 questions for the Libyans to ask a suspect,” the Times said. We should have at least that many—many more—for our own government.

________________

In democracies it is really easy. Economic power buys military power and military power buys political power. As one former US president so eloquently put it; "Its the economy, stupid"
by henkers

"(“We’re the dark matter. We’re the force that orders the universe but can’t be seen,” a SEAL told the Post.)" This may come across to many as simply a grandiose brag by one of the US Navy commando troops very proud of his groups' "accomplishments". However when put in general everyday language, the above statement is saying, "We enforcers turn all the words that make up orders/mandate/regulations/laws/edicts/directives/etc. issued by government legislators, executives (including the President), judges and bureaucrats into physical force upon the intended victim(s)." The point the SEAL was making - though I am certain he intended it to mean none other than for his particular military group - is that enforcers are *key* to all the words issued by their bosses in government. He's correct! And it is true for all government enforcers, including the domestic ("law enforcement officers") variety that without these initiators of physical force all those numerous official commanding words would be nothing but soundwaves and/or scribbles. Want to see these wars end?! Encourage and promote non enlistments in the military. No high ranking military or politicians are going to get out in the field - or even push the necessary buttons to launch weapons - and get their own hands dirty and/or bloody. No, rulers (and their adjutants) will always depend on underlings who have not yet been sufficiently persuaded by others that it is not in their own and anyone's longterm best interest to be a party to these actions. With far fewer troops available to each government, foreign wars will not be possible and only defense actions against invaders will be considered. This is not simply idealistic dreaming. It is a call to all individuals who want to see wars end to take personal responsibility for not approving with their continued voluntary association those among them who choose to continue to participate in wars, despite reasoned persuasion to get truly productive jobs.
by KittyAntonikWakfer

Time for Obama to plan his own exit ... From office.
by sloper

It beggars the definition of word 'hypocrite' to contemplate that our government, which for decades, has excoriated Libya and Gadaffi as brutal barbarians, but at the same time, in secret, hires them to carry out the very worst barbarities on prisoners (kidnappees) in American charge. Americans who engage in this kind of activity are worthy only of death. They should be exposed, tried and executed as a warning to others who seem to feel being in the government is a free pass on morality and accountability.
by cythara

In simple terms, the USA, the great champion of moral authority in the world (as it sees itself) is by that definition the more guilty of the torture and murder it conducts (directly or by proxy) than the Gadaffi's,Hussein's Assad's and Khameni's - those over whom the US claims moral superiority. Obama is to my knowledge the only US President to have imposed a death sentence on a US citizen without the benefit of any legal process for presumed treason - putting him on a par with those same Gadaffi's,Hussein's Assad's and Khameni's. Time for Ms. Davidson to begin calling spades - well - shovels might be a start.
by JohnGilmore

9/11: "Specific, credible, but unconfirmed."

2011-09-10T06:51:00.000-07:00

Johndrake07
NYC

Can you say 'False Flag Operation' - as if we need more justification for continuing the phoney war on tourists, excuse me, terrorism, this the eleventh year and counting?

The Great Distraction continues, and so does the non-stop filling of the sinkholes with trillions of taxpayer dollars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya, along with the drain plug being quietly pulled on Syria and Iran.

Our officials aren't really concerned with protecting us from another 9/11 event or blow-back from our adventures abroad. Their concern is whether the American Public will wake up from their media-induced stupor and demand an end to this massive ripoff of trillions of dollars that could better have been spent fixing the ills in good ol' USA. But that would actually mean getting the money out to the people - in jobs, infrastructure repair, school improvement, road and rail rebuilding, and a host of other actions that would have a beneficial return on investment. Of course, that would also mean that the money spigot would be shut off to war profiteering, fraud, overcharges, millions diverted to off shore accounts, kickbacks to politicians and legislators, support and bail outs to failing and criminally negligent banks, and an end to the spinning and revolving door of job opportunity for our elected officials and their industry counterparts.

So, we can expect that the meme of 9/11 with all its fear mongering, Arab bashing, pseudo reconciliation, flag waving, crackdown of our freedoms here so they won't crackdown on them over there, not to mention the continuing dissolution of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, will continue unabated. After all, it is in their best interests to do so.

Police officers investigate a small cooler that was left unattended, causing sections of Times Square to be evacuated May 7, 2010 in New York. The cooler was determined to not be a threat, and the streets were reopened shortly after an hour of being closed.

Why are US in Iraq?

2011-09-09T08:36:00.000-07:00

Hayward's Kurdistan deal: Another reminder that BP should be broken up

By Steve LeVine

Former BP CEO Tony Hayward is receiving hearty handshakes for the $2.1 billion deal he has organized for fields holding a reasonably rich 356 million barrels of oil in Kurdistan. The agreed merger of Hayward's Vallares with Turkey's Genel Energy is his "continuing professional rehabilitation," Forbes says in one on-line piece, and "Tony Hayward's Revenge" in another. "Tony Hayward Makes a Comeback," says the Wall Street Journal. "Turkish Delight for Hayward" says Upstream magazine.
Are these assessments correct -- has Hayward (pictured above in less-happy times), 17 months after the devastating BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, demonstrated again that he has the right stuff? Mmmm ... no. What he has demonstrated anew is his taste for living on the edge, cutting corners and risk-the-company deals.
Those are not necessarily deadly attributes in the highly risky oil business. What makes them so hazardous is that Hayward does not appear to know his deals could jeopardize the company he happens to be running. He just stands on the ledge whistling. It is the same attitude -- one still apparent in his former company, BP (more on this below) -- that helped cause the Gulf spill of 5 million barrels of oil.
One can see what attracted Hayward to Kurdistan. He is in line to earn $24 million in shares in the merged company, and possibly more based on performance. He again is CEO of an oil company, albeit a pipsqueak compared with his old one. He is in one of the most exciting frontier oil regions of the world.
On the downside, Kurdistan is in perpetual dispute with Iraqi national leaders in Baghdad. The primary risk is that the entire deal could go south should Kurdistan and Baghdad plunge again fully into daggers drawn regarding the right of Kurdistan to sell and export oil. If that happens -- if Kurdistan or the Vallares properties alone are unable to freely export oil -- it would demolish the main rationale for Hayward's plans to list the merged company on the London stock exchange.
All of this risk-taking suits Hayward's new partner, Genel chief Mehmet Sepil. Last year, he was fined $1.5 million in Great Britain for insider trading, and thus could not have listed his company on the London exchange on his own merit, write Christopher Thompson and Anousha Sakoui at the Financial Times.
So the Hayward style (which to be fair was also his predecessor John Browne's style) continues in the land of wildcatting. But with his departure, it was supposed to be eradicated from BP itself. Yet as suggested above, there is evidence it has not.
We see this most recently in Russia, where Hayward's successor, CEO Bob Dudley, happily signed a blockbuster Arctic deal with Rosneft a few months ago that flouted contractual fidelity to an existing Russian partner. Courts effectively vacated the deal, and ExxonMobil, unhindered by any pre-existing marriage, picked it up last week in BP's place.
This has been so much blood in the water as far as BP's Russian partners are concerned, and they had masked Russian forces raid BP's Moscow office in supposed search of incriminating documents.
BP shareholders are clearly worried. In a piece this week, the Wall Street Journal's Guy Chazan reported that BP shareholders are demanding that management show that it knows how to right the company. He quotes Paul Mumford, senior fund manager at London-based Cavendish Asset Management, which owns BP shares: "BP is increasingly viewed as a company that's lost its way."
A few months ago, this blog argued that BP is such a serial offender, that it was time for shareholders to take matters into their own hands, and either totally shake up or say goodbye to the company. One option that's been discussed since the summer is breaking up BP into three or more parts. That is sounding more and more sensible.

Ex-BP Chief’s Firm to Buy Iraqi Oil Company in $2.1 Billion Deal
By JULIA WERDIGIER

LONDON — Tony Hayward, who resigned as chief executive of BP amid the fallout from the Gulf of Mexico oil spill last year, is set to become the head of another oil company.

Vallares, the investment vehicle Mr. Hayward co-founded with the financier Nathaniel P. Rothschild this year, agreed on Wednesday to buy Genel Energy International, an oil producer in the Kurdistan region of Iraq, in a $2.1 billion deal.

Mr. Hayward will be chief executive of the new company, called Genel Energy. Rodney Chase, the former deputy chief executive of BP, would become chairman and Mr. Rothschild nonexecutive director.

Under the terms of the transaction, Vallares will issue $2.1 billion of new stock at £10 ($15.99) a share to acquire Genel in a reverse takeover. The owners of Vallares and Genel will own equal shares in the combined company. The Turkish billionaire Mehmet Karamehmet currently owns 56 percent of Genel, while the company’s chief executive, Mehmet Sepil, owns 29 percent.

The deal comes months after Vallares raised £1.35 billion ($2.1 billion) from investors through a London stock listing in June, with the expectation of buying oil and natural gas assets in Russia and the former Soviet states, the Middle East, Africa, Asia and Latin America.

Genel has stakes in two producing oil fields, a major natural gas discovery and significant exploration acreage in Kurdistan, the semiautonomous northern province of Iraq, Vallares said.

“Our investors are acquiring a strong existing business with excellent producing assets, a fine team of technical and operating staff already in place, and immense potential for future growth,” Mr. Hayward said in a statement on Wednesday. “The Kurdistan region of Iraq is undoubtedly one of the last great oil and gas frontiers.”

Mr. Sepil, who will become president of the new company, was fined £967,000 by the British financial regulator, the Financial Services Authority, in February 2010 for trading in Heritage Oil based on inside information about drilling tests.

The newly combined entity plans to file a prospectus in October, allowing it to move forward with its listing in London. The deal is subject to the approval of the Kurdistan government, which the company expects to receive later this month.

Following the transaction, the company plans to have sufficient funds “to participate aggressively in the significant consolidation we expect to see in the region over the next few years and to expand elsewhere if good opportunities arise,” it said in the statement.

tim ohanlon...
aberdeen

Nathan Rothschild's listed cash shell Vallares is involved in a quiet, no holds barred fight in the distant oil fields of Kurdistan, with a secretive Chinese military controlled company Poly Energy. The fight which has important implications for Western oil companies is to acquire control of one of the largest oil field in Kurdistan, Tak-Tak.

Tak-Tak, one of the last so-called elephant fields is relatively under explored, but from the little that has been explored, experts estimate a reserve of approximately six. billion barrels in the ground
The field is presently owned by Sinopec a Chinese state company and Genel Energy, a company owned by Memet Kara Memet, the richest Turk in the world.

This is when Tony Hayward, the former boss of BP, who is Nathan Rothschild's partner in Vallares, sensing a good opportunity moved in, only to find himself in a head to head with Poly energy, who backed by the Chinese state, are trying to acquire complete control of the biggest block in Kurdistan for China Inc.

Poly Energy is, we understand, being advised by Shiv Shankaran Nair, a reclusive Maltese millionaire and deal maker, who has thrived on front ending transactions for Chinese State Companies in Africa.
Nair who counts The Barzanis, who run Kurdistan almost as a personal fiefdom, as his personal friends , has been shuttling between Kurdistan, Beijing and Ankara on behalf of his Chinese client, trying to persuade the Kurds to allow a 100 % Chinese takeover of their biggest field.

The Vallares bid which is around the 2.1 billion USD mark in a mix of cash and equity options has been trumped by a straight cash offer of 3 billion USD by the Chinese.
The only victor out of this fight is the diminutive Turk, Memet Karamemet, who is rubbing his hands in glee seeing an asset he paid a hundred million dollars for six years ago, being fought for at ten times what he paid for it

Also sprach Obama: A speech for all and none

2011-09-09T08:09:00.000-07:00

Karen Garcia
New Paltz, NY

It was vintage Obama -- long (too long) on righteous indignation and populist pablum, short on specifics. Did you miss the part where he said his fantastic job creation plan, two-thirds of which is tax cuts, will be paid for by even more draconian cuts to the social safety net?

Pay attention, not to a president air-kissing the elite politicians in the hallowed halls of Congress, but to that secretive politburo known as the Super Committee, which met for the first time (that we know about) on Thursday. Among the items they will be considering is an increase in the Medicare eligibility age to 67. That, and other measures, such as a possible reduction in Social Security benefits based on chained CPI measures, are too steep of a price to pay for a few tax cuts. Moreover, the proposed halving of the payroll tax will have the net effect of not filling the coffers of the Social Security trust fund. Get a few thousand now, lose your retirement later. Sounds more like cynical chutzpah than a big bold plan to me.

Again, the president reverted to the same old tactic of speaking Republicanese to placate the Congress. The programs he suggested, for the most part, have their provenance in GOP Land. Tax breaks to businesses who hire are nothing new.

The optics of the speech were in-your-face terrible. Who had the bright idea of seating tax-evading, anti-union offshore jobs shipper Jeffrey Immelt of G.E. in the First Lady's box? At least the camera operator had the good sense to pan in on him rising to his feet in gleeful applause when Obama talked about the great trade deals with South Korea, Panama and Columbia -- allowing G.E. and its ilk to outsource even more jobs and hoard obscene corporate profits.

I wish Obama had explained to the American people just what got us into this mess (Wall Street and deregulation) in the first place. Instead, he continued in austerian mode and just nibbled around the edges. Scary stuff.

http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/

Marie Burns
Fort Myers, Florida

Uh, I thought the American people HAD been demanding action on jobs. I guess Congress doesn't read the public polls, all of which show overwhelmingly that Americans think the biggest problem in the country is unemployment. You wrote in a blogpost today, "I don’t want to wax all sentimental about the genius of the common man. But the fact is that both the origins of this crisis and its perpetuation overwhelmingly reflect the errors of the very people now lamenting the annoyances of democracy that keep them from imposing their preferred policies." I listened to a little bit of C-SPAN's post-speech phone-in, and while it's true that the people who called in weren't Nobel material, every one I heard, from left and right, complained about unemployment.

And as if to prove the point that the Very Serious People aren't listening to these people, Peter Walsten of the Washington Post reported yesterday: "More than two dozen senators [the usual suspects] from both parties met privately this week to revive hopes of a grand debt-cutting bargain -- exploring how to push the newly formed debt 'supercommittee' to find far more than its assigned goal of $1.5 trillion in deficit reductions.... [President] Obama, too, is expected to press the committee to exceed its deficit-reduction goal. In his speech Thursday night, he called on Congress to increase the supercommittee's deficit-cutting goals to cover the costs of his jobs plan."

Meanwhile, Fed Chair Ben Bernanke thinks people like me are a big part of the problem: In a speech yesterday, he said, "Even taking into account the many financial pressures that they face, households seem exceptionally cautious." As Binyamin Appelbaum of the Times put it, "Consumers are depressed beyond reason or expectation." Maybe Bernanke should talk to Tom Friedman. Friedman called us "self-indulgent" this week.

Any way you look at it, we ordinary Americans get no respect.

The Constant Weader at www.RealityChex.com

MNW
Connecticut

In my view we need to address specific targets.
There is hiring and there is demand for products and services. It is the chicken/egg dilemma - which is first.
Some entity has to step up and be first. Should it be hard-pressed consumers in the lower/middle class or Corporations with accumulated profits and overpaid upper management?
The answer is obvious - Corporations must stop outsourcing, reducing the workforce, decimating benefits, hoarding profits, etc.
Start hiring regardless. Reduce upper management salaries/perks. Bring back overseas profits without the blackmail of lesser taxes on those profits. They owe it to the society that put them where you are in every sense of the word. We are ALL in this together - we are an interdependent society.
Listen to Warren Buffet - a man of good conscience - promoting higher taxes on million dollar incomes and raising the 15% capital gains tax plus other sensible taxation measures. He would work effectively with persons in upper income brackets to bring about much needed change in the areas of deficit/debt/taxation matters.
Corporations want the lower corporate taxes to be found abroad, but not the higher income taxes that those countries require - to fund social programs for their society. Corporations want it both ways. If they move Headquarters to other countries to take advantage of lower corporate taxes then their upper management should be required to move there also to pay the required higher income taxes. It is called a balanced equation/system. Make "balance" the new byword for the benefit/fairness of us all.
Examine the tenets of Capitalism. An aspect of a capitalistic system is that INCOME in the system takes two basic forms - profit on one hand and WAGES on the other. Wages implies WORKERS and it is here that our system of Capitalism is currently failing us as a nation and as a society.
Until a credible balance returns to the two factors of profits and wages/workers we will remain in a precarious position regarding our viability as a functioning national entity on the world economic scene.
The first step to correct a Capitalistic system gone .......... haywire is to return manufacturing plants/processes to this country. If the government must step in to advance this necessary condition, then so be it. Wages and workers are at stake in the US and profits must be put back to work in the US for the benefit of all - the enterprise itself, management, employees, shareholders, investors, society, and even good government itself.
One of the functions of profits is to use them to expand an enterprise, creating more jobs and wealth here in the US. Creating more jobs creates more demand and creates more wealth for everyone. Isn't this what we currently need - more jobs and by extension more wealth?
End the damaging outsourcing of jobs and end the damage being done to our middle class and its economic viability - do that as soon as possible.

Andrew
Colesville, MD

Obama’s job creation proposal is a temporary alleviation of the economy malady at the best. The establishments and theirs aids confound temporary Xanax with cure; Aspirin is not an elixir. They prefer the demand side to supply side economics, unfortunately neither works.

It is wrong to say lack of consumption demand caused mass unemployment and economic stagnation. Demand deficiency is the not the cause rather the effect. The basic cause of capitalist economic crises is its structural deficiency and inextricable internal contradictions such as that between unlimited surplus value or profit extraction and relative over-population, including unemployment and under-employment and the vicious cycle thereof, ad inf.

There is adequate consumption demand supported with unemployment compensation, food stamp, welfare, child assistance, income tax credit, Medicaid, severance payment, Medicare, Social Security, pension and 401K, etc., in addition to capitalists’ own luxury consumption demand. Demand does not cause economic crises at all. If it did, wherefrom does the exorbitant profit come? Remember 70% of national income comes from consumption. Putting demand as a cart ahead of the capital horse is the best way to lurk the Ponzi blackmail of capital that is the real culprit. Obama wants to harmonize the capital and labor relationship serving as a runaround for capital to continue riding roughshod over labor.

Capital is the only pivotal force that debilitates the economy and abuses its power onto the working class. Every sincere & honest politico-economic calamity fighter must stop mollycoddling capital and masquerading pro-capital act as fair & balance neutrality.

Overproduction & over-accumulation of capital must stop before suffering further deterioration of economy. Unfettered labor productivity development, which incites excess capital, including cash hoarding & excess working population, including unemployment, must rein in hard through profit-sharing.

_________________________________

I do think Andrew goes the closest to the heart of the matter. The problem is:

How do you tel that to democratically entitled folk?
How do you steer the ship into the right direction?

Obama and the powers that be are obviously interested in neither. The ship is adrift in stormy seas, the increasingly restless passengers are looking for terra firma, an accident will take or tell us there. As the elites are always interested in the status-quo ante, only an accident will take us there.

When did WWII(I) start?

2011-09-06T20:34:00.000-07:00

...September 1, 1939? Not really -- the Germans started it much earlier and the Allies a bit later. How did the US get involved? Japanese oil.

When has WWIII started? Then, that is, pick your date after 9/11/2001. How the other(s) may get involved? Oil/vital resources.

Did Qaddafi indicate a change of taste from western to eastern currencies in exchange for the Libyan oil?

Libyan Historical Echoes

A. T.

Scarborough-on-Hudson, N.Y.

Libya has over 140 tribes and is a colonial construct cobbled together by the Italians from Fezzan (the south), Tripolitania (the west) and Cyrenaica (the east) using concentration camps (Suluq, Al-Maghroun, Al-Abiyar and Al-Agheila), by executing its religious and political leaders (Omar Mukhtar), and by manipulating various civil wars as they broke out. Just as with Iraq and the others, pundits, media and governments and those pandering to them, project their own false reality on the situation – its easy to invent “we are one country and one people all wanting the same thing but terrorized by a tyrant.” But the shallowness of that protestation becomes immediately evident the second a victory seems imminent. Then, opponents are not countrymen, but “rats” to be exterminated. Those actually familiar with that region and its history and its people, on the other hand, point out that this is just another chapter in a long history of civil wars between Benghazi (Cyrenaica) and Tripolitania. For some reason, NATO countries orchestrated a victory for Cyrenaica, so the tribes of the East will now prosper at the expense of all others. Ghadaffi is, after all, the name of a Tripolitanian tribe, not just that of a man or a family. Democracy demands that each region choose whether it would like to be part of a greater Libya and, if so, how to insure the rights and equal participation of all, with particular sensitivity to the weaker tribes of the former Fezzan to the South and the tribes just crushed by NATO. But there is no reasonable expectation this should come to pass after a war that caused more death than it prevented and that had no believable objective directed towards building a pluralistic society.

________

From the above comment, one gets the idea that, in the good British imperial tradition, Libya will enjoy a precarious stability, at best. Hot peace can be maintained for now (read, as long as the rate on US Treasuries is low). The Russians are happy to see their oil-income go up amid instability in the oil-exporting countries. The Chinese interests will have to be factored in the Libyan peace as well. Whom should we invoice for the target practice? BTW, Bush's Mission Accomplished moment is being mirrored when they want us to think it's over in some quarter of the Arab Spring. Has anyone heard the Fat Lady?

US in one line: No organized labor

2011-08-22T06:01:00.000-07:00

NYTimes reports:

On Wednesday, 300 foreign students walked off the job and staged a protest rally at a packaging warehouse for Hershey’s chocolates, saying this wasn’t the America they had paid to see. When they tried to organize, they said they were warned to stop complaining or they would be kicked out of the program.

Context:

The students, from Turkey, China, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Romania, Mongolia, Moldova, Poland and Ghana, were hired under the J-1 visa program, which allows foreign university students to work in the United States for two months and then travel. The idea is to let them practice English, make some money and learn what America is like.

These students found themselves working in an industrial park, packing candy and moving boxes, many on the overnight shift. Though they had each paid from $3,000 to $6,000 to participate in the J-1 program, rent and other fees were deducted from their paychecks.

NYTimes whitewash:

There is much good to see in this country. And no one should want to sugar coat the tougher side of life here either, including long shifts at backbreaking jobs for low pay that is familiar to American workers. But no workers should have to put up with bullying from bosses or threats of firing (or in this case deportation) if they want to organize. That sort of “cultural experience” should shame us all.

REALITY:

We don't do organized labor, for we restrict the 1st Amendment to noise generating ends, and suspend it when the the owners feel threatened. Yup, the J-1 students must also be their temporary property. How do they perceive America? Why bother to ask, the scheme seems to be working...

Morality comeback?

2011-08-16T16:31:00.000-07:00

Morality has long lost its place among the yardsticks with which we tell each other and ourselves how well we do. The Darwinian justice of the markets was expected to exact the price of the socially under-performing actions. Hence everything has turned into a market, from markets of ideas to dating markets, from job markets to derivative markets. While many a population has followed its respective market gyrations, trying to understand and work the market magic to its advantage, the elites scorned disdainfully at any idea of morality.

The recent blowups in Iraq have brought back the moral dimension into the public discourse. Have a look for yourself:

Steve Bolger

New York, NY

Pathetic. Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, but America the Stupid still propagates the lie. This country is so comprehensively dishonest it deserves its impending total collapse.

James O'Donnell III

Fremont, CA

If America’s leaders had a shred of human decency, Congress would’ve ended this criminally misguided debacle years ago, and several thousand Iraqis would still be alive today.

Instead, refusing to acknowledge our grave miscalculations (and ignoring the advice of our top military men), America had to “Surge,” giving Iraqi civilians the deadliest year of the war, just to pad the ego of an infantile failure of a president who couldn’t abide the idea of losing a war on his watch.

For the record -- which has been deliberately muddied by the Neocons and “mainstream” media -- the Surge was an abysmal failure: it exacerbated the ethnosectarian bloodbath and birthed fresh grievances with atrocities like the purge of the vast majority of Baghdad’s Sunnis (which created a million NEW refugees). It achieved none of its stated goals for political reconciliation or restoration of services.

Post-Surge Iraq is a civil war constrained only by its newly segregated population, divided by concrete blast walls erected by a brutal occupier.

Now Obama is our president, and despite his “anti-war” image, he’s been pushing Iraq to accept a prolonged U.S. military presence -- 10,000 soldiers in addition to the nearly 200,000 mercenaries we employ. He’s done so without a single strategic shift to acknowledge (and begin reversing) the terrible damage wrought by America’s profiteering policy of domination and control.

The decent (and intelligent) thing to do would be to admit our mistakes and begin making amends, relinquishing our geopolitical and economic ambitions where Iraq is concerned.

We owe the Iraqis and our own sacrificed soldiers no less.

But in Iraq and elsewhere our leaders continue down the morally grotesque GWoT path forged by Bush/Cheney. It’s a reminder that the true face of “evil” is something far more mundane than that which we usually imagine. In fact, it’s so common we see it every day.

It is the face of moral cowardice.

James O’Donnell III

Invitation2Artivism.com

harkadahl

London

A farcical, incompetent, malevolent assault on an innocent nation and it's long suffering people. The USA ought to hang it's head in abject shame (if it ever understood the notion of shame).

Donna

Cornwall, U.K.

As the mother of a former US Marine who served two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan, I bucked the tide of military families by protesting the waste of war at every opportunity.

While my son accepted the fact that serving in a war zone was his job, and remained apolitical, I felt it was my job, as a mother, to condemn the immorality of squandering blood and treasury on an illegal invasion waged by warmongers -- on both sides of the Atlantic -- who lacked counterinsurgency tactics and an exit strategy.

No military parent wants to feel their child was killed in vain. But with Iraq's deadly internal strife continuing 8-1/2 years after the invasion, what else is one to think?

The cold arrogance of politicians willing to sacrifice other people's children in unwinnable wars still boggles the mind and sickens the heart.

Citizen

Many comments are against the wars. Interesting, since there were also many comments FOR going in to Libya. As a country, we never like the war we're in, but that never stops us from entering or causing another one.

I'll wager that the next time the president makes the case for "intervening" in some two-bit third world country's issues, half of the people commenting against our current wars will be behind him, telling us how so very vital such and such's internal issue is to our national security, and how we desperately need to send in our troops to help straighten them out.

I am sickened by our addiction to war.

And this comment transitions it to Libya:

Alfred Noble

Geneva, Suisse

US OUT OF LIBYA NOW!!

Why is the US funding hardline Islamic Rebels in Libya?

The Rebels are guilty of far worse Human Rights Crimes than Ghadafi ever was guilty of.

Why are we the world's policeman?

We've wasted $1.2 Trillion in Libya now and are still flying DAILY bombing missions.

street professor

sydney, australia

"Democracy” comes out of the payload of a bomber aircraft, apparently… Saving them Libyans from themselves with NATO 'freedom bombs'.

Can't be long before Hillary asks Gaddafi to step down again, because the US knows what is best for the Libyan people. Free health care, education, housing, cheap oil, a massive water project and the highest standard of living in Africa isn't acceptable to the US.

You Libyans need 'US style democracy'.... heaps of debt, privatised Central Bank, high income taxes, high cost of education/health care and constant wars. Just ask the Iraqis to see how much fun it is.

Next stop, we'll help those Syrians out.

HAIDER ALI

NEW YORK

The great robbery of the century. First, the western countries sent the mercenaries for looting and plundering in Libya, and then seized the Libyan bank accounts and assets. And now they are releasing those funds to the rebels to buy the garbage from them(west), as well as pay them the consulting fees and etc.

Perhaps, if the Libya did not have $30 billion in the USA bank, it might not have this trouble.

Anyhow,the traitors will meet their consequences, and to capture the Libya like Iraq and Afghanistan will be foiled in the desert. We must feel sorry for the deaths in Iraq today, and take a lesson from this tragedy.

Lyle Vos, Democratic Candidate for President 2012

NY NY

Why doesn't the press confront Obama about Libya? Who is paying for the US war against Libya?

WHAT THE SILENT MAJORITY DOESN'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT IT WILL EVENTUALLY LOSE THE COMFORT OF WHATEVER IT INVESTED IN THE STATUS QVO. YOU TELL ME THE MORAL, PLEASE!

There are few honest people in this crappy world!

2011-08-01T08:56:00.000-07:00

It so happens that our mass media are designed to con-front our common sense, in judgment and values, with the worst in ourselves. This is so much so that even when you see through the crap they put on public display, you think you are alone.

A fellow traveler at Patrice Ayme's blog, Keith to be more precise, pointed my attention to the following:

Here’s something by Max Blumenthal (author of Republican Gommorrah) who draws in all sorts of threads:
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/640055/why_anders_behring_breivik_cannot_be_dismissed_as_a_%22madman%22/#paragraph2
In the comment section you might (or might not!) like the link to a Chris Hedges article on fundamentalism:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/fundamentalism_kills_20110726/

And that's how I've discovered Chris Hedges, what a revelation! Hedges looks at how the institutionalized LEFT has failed the people. Was it easy money that did it?

After all, I think there are many more of us, except that we are being kept at distance from each other, or when we come in close proximity we do it at 120mph moving in opposite directions...

Surely you didn't buy the circus our Congress had kept on display for so long. I saw this morning I was not alone :-) when I read the comments from Krugman's op-ed in NYtimes.

honeyspider

Seattle

Calm down, Paul. Your the-sky-is-falling rhetoric is not helping your case.

"Start with the economics. We currently have a deeply depressed economy.... The worst thing you can do in these circumstances is slash government spending, since that will depress the economy even further."

That's not what Keynesian Economics says and you know it. Keynesian fiscal policy calls for deficit spending to prop up demand. Fiscal stimulus is proportional to the size of the gap between government spending and tax revenue, not the total amount of spending.

The "worst" thing you can do, according to Keynes, is to reduce the short term budget deficit, by any means. Whether it's cuts to domestic spending or tax increases makes very little difference. Now, this deal makes minimal reductions to the short-term budget deficit (on the order of $100 billion), not great, but not the end of the world, and not enough to make the difference between recovery and recession, but even if it were, raising taxes by the same amount would have exactly the same impact.

"Indeed, slashing spending while the economy is depressed won’t even help the budget situation much, and might well make it worse."

Oh, please. This is the mirror image of "tax cuts pay for themselves" and it's just as erroneous for exactly the same reason.

"And even now, the Obama administration could have resorted to legal maneuvering to sidestep the debt ceiling, using any of several options.... But wouldn’t taking a tough stance have worried markets? Probably not."

Sure, let's invoke a constitutionally questionable unilateral increase in the debt ceiling by citing the 14th Amendment. I'm sure investors around the world will happily continue buying treasuries at 3% while Congress moves to impeach the President for treason and we wait 6 months for the Supreme court to decide whether the U.S. will default on it's debt. You're not even making sense any more.

kathleen

Oakland, CA

This deal may provide the impetus to go with a four-party system, since liberals/progressives have been completely ditched (and dissed) by President Obama, and across the aisle, moderate Republicans are split from the Teapartiers.

Given this most recent capitulation by the President, I will find it very hard to remain a Democrat, let alone support his candidacy. I do not appreciate the scorn he has shown to those responsible for his gaining office, and I am repulsed his cozy relationship with all the Wall Street tycoons, Jeff Immelt being the last straw in that department. It is obvious who matters to this administration.

This was no negotiation. I am close to believing it was all in the plan from the start. I do not intend to vote for a Republican, regardless of which party they belong to.

It is a pity that America has come to this point, that we have declared ourselves to be a can't-do nation: can't maintain a safety net, or our infrastructure, or a decent system of education, none of it, AND we have to continue to unfairly enrich the already-wealthy.

We don't even have a President who can utilize his co-equal power and his bully pulpit to effectively prevent such a debacle. Instead it's been lots of lines drawn in the sand, only to be erased, and lots of deadlines, only to be extended, until finally, the extortionists' deal is done. For now. Because surely, now that they've tasted success, this will not be the last use of extortion; once again it's been proved quite effective!

In each "negotiation" the Republicans have become ever more emboldened to demand more in the next round. I am beginning to wonder whether I even want to live amongst people who behave so badly, who would treat so many with such contempt; who would so readily revoke longheld quid pro quo promises of Social Security and Medicare; and who would seek to deny Medicaid and food security to the destitute.

And still there are no jobs for the jobless. What are the people to do?

III

WNY

An excellently guided series of points by Paul, save - ironically - for the title. The President (and top congressional Democrats) didn't surrender! He and they got exactly what they wanted from the beginning: the promise of deep, long-term cuts to social security and medicare. That is the only reasonable way to interpret it (on top of Rep. Conyers point blankly commenting that the President has been the one insisting that SS must be a part of the deal), there have been so many possible alternatives to this deal not taken that it's the only interpretation worth taking. Had he not extended the useless, $600 billion dollar two-year "Obama/Bush Tax Cuts" in December, we wouldn't be talking about the debt ceiling now. Had he included a debt ceiling raise in that deal to extend the tax cuts, when it wasn't politically contentious, we wouldn't be talking about the debt ceiling now. Had he addressed health care cost inflation with his health care reform bill, instead of *only* coverage, we wouldn't be talking about the debt ceiling now. Had he allowed the negotiations to pass the arbitrary August 2nd deadline, it wouldn't have led to a default. The treasury has enough projected revenue for August to cover the loan interest payments. What it would've led to is a re-prioritization of spending, meaning that Social Security checks likely wouldn't have gone out in full or on time for August/September. The Republicans have already been blamed for their intransigence. That's the narrative. Failure to meet the deadline is no risk for Democrats right now. Once those SS checks fail to make it out on time, imagine the sheer volume of complaint calls and media panic hitting freshman tea-partiers. If the Paul Ryan Budget put their feet to the flames, this would've engulfed them. Had he been willing to put his re-election framing as the "reasonable" and "conciliatory" moderate behind the interests of the nation, we wouldn't be dealing with this terrible debt ceiling deal right now.

LukeLiberty

California

I think those posting here are living in an alternate universe. Krugman's analysis is linear and does not address the fundamental dynamic of the ratio of debt to GDP, and the fact that it is structurally escalating. His strategies might work in times of better ratios, but there is a point of elasticity with debt. We are past it. As far as the "historical record" about tying slashed spending to jobs and economic well-being, the largest drops in government spending occurred after WW2, and the private sector went to work. And does confidence matter? Yes, which is why companies simply stopped hiring and/or got health care waivers after the HCR passage. Hirings dropped 90% within 2 months of HCR passage.

Instead of being grateful for the greatest prosperity in history, we have done what many lottery winners do - gluttonously spent even more than we have. We have demonized each other in a fight by politicians and moneyed interests to keep power and money, at the expense of the next generations. The complainers on this board do not realize it, but the greatest friends of their children and grandchildren are the ones who say the spending madness has to stop. We can't do anything on a progressive agenda to help humanity if we have no resources or have to borrow to do it. We can spend what we don't have... but only up to a point. We are past that point, after decades of indulgence and denial. Krugman's point of view has a Nobel Prize behind it. The one expressed in these paragraphs has mathematics. Math wins.

Where are we going? Lower. How low? Until we can see the starry sky and moral law above us.

oh no, we americans are not socialist!

2011-07-25T05:44:00.000-07:00

NYTimes is doing someone's work again and publishing the following piece

To Reach Simple Life of Summer Camp, Lining Up for Private Jets
By CHRISTINE HAUGHNEY
Even as the economy limps along, more of the nation’s wealthier families are cutting out the car ride and chartering planes to fly to summer camps.

We, the never socialist people, comment:

of 4Next
1.
Arkymark
Vienna, VA
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
See, they do need lower taxes.
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8.
Unemployed in the Midwest
Midwest
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
I just woke on day 20 of my first unemployment in 25 years, and as usual am reading all the papers to stay current. This is just a horrifying article, what a punch in the face to the millions of families struggling. Clearly there winners in this bizarre economy, but an article like this could actually be a tipping point.
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3.
Mary
NY
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
After camp is finished, maybe these kids return to their 20,000 dollar backyard playhouses. Somtimes, I think the NYT publishes these types of articles to push our middle and working class buttons.
Recommend Recommended by 132 Readers
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11.
TB
New Jersey
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
Please don't raise their taxes. It might create a hint of discomfort in their lives.
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20.
Raymond
BKLYN
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
And this luxury for rich kids, while a third of US children are in households below the official poverty line, a very low standard indeed. But, hey, this is America, USA No.1, the model for all the world to follow. Raising taxes on the rich, to say the Eisenhower era level, would be treason.
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5.
C Murray
Alexandria VA
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
Well, I think that these parents, more than likely, could afford to pay a little more in taxes than the other 96% of American's, contrary to what the Republican's seem to think! These people have way, way too much money, they should humble themselves and have their kids take a Greyhound Bus, like I did in the late 60's! PITTIFUL!!
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12.
bbl229
New Fairfield, Ct
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
I think these people could afford to pay a little more in taxes don't you?
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2.
Madame de Farge
usa
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
Better than using that money to create jobs!
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19.
Rich
Washington
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
Arrrrrgggggggh.......and the right has the temerity to hold America hostage to protect Connecticut hedge fund managers and their Jets?

Let them eat cake, indeed.
Recommend Recommended by 61 Readers
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18.
mikelpeters
New Jersey
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
I can only imagine the self of entitlement these teens and families must have arriving in a jet. An absolutely horrible example to set during these times of economic troubles. So much for the quality time with your children during the road trip.
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14.
EW
NY
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
..."brought on two extra people to help handle the traffic last weekend."

See? Trickle-down DOES work!
Recommend Recommended by 57 Readers
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16.
terypat
Fall River, MA
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
God forbid we require these parents to depreciate their jets over seven years, because we all know the toll these planes take carting around precious 13 year old cargo to summer camp and no doubt private school in the fall! Don't you realize the major impact that will have on her trust fund? The horrors!
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15.
Scott Contreras-Koterbay
Johnson City, TN
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
Seriously? No, I mean... SERIOUSLY? Rich people bemoan and bedevil the notion of entitlements for people of lower incomes, but even if they are able to afford it this still speaks of an egregious mindset filled with a sense of entitlement. Perish the thought that the children might not see their parents for seven weeks while at camp, or that the parents might have to schedule a complete day to either bringing or picking up their children.
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17.
Mayim
NJ
July 25th, 2011
7:33 am
yeah and we should't vote to tax the wealthy cause we wouldn't want their kids to have to fly commercial or horrors, drive or take a train or bus.
Recommend Recommended by 48 Readers
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13.
Charles Teague
New York, NY
July 25th, 2011
7:32 am
Please don't do stories like this.
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28.
HylasBrook
Canaan, NY
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
The rich simply have too much money. Their current tax rate is lower than it was under Reagan. While they can throw money away on private jets and chartered jets, working Americans struggle each day.

This article has a good point -- President Obama wants to raise some revenues to address the US's deficit. One of the things he's suggested is changing the depreciation on private jets and big yachts from 7 years to 5 years.

Yet this small amount of revenue is too much for the Republicans. They prefer to cut funding for the FAA, for better tornado tracking, and better emergency response systems for natural disasters.

Which is more important to Republicans - letting a 50K a year government employees keep their job or making it easier for the wealthy to afford their private jets?

You decide. And remember that November 6, 2012.
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4.
Ira. B.
New York City
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
I just returned from visiting day weekend in Maine. By car. It only takes 6 hours from New York, and we got to stop for Lobster at the Chauncey Creek Lobster on the way in and pizza at Frank Pepe's on the way back. Sure beats a peanut butter sandwich (or even a lobster) flying private.

Also, talk about leaving a carbon footprint!
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21.
Bill
New York
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
This is just weird. And gross.
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6.
Justin
Portland, Maine
July 25th, 2011
7:30 am
Oh good, less traffic for us commoners to deal with on I-95.
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24.
decell
new orleans
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
I know people have the right to make choices with their money, but I am offended to read that campers take private planes. Have their parents heard about the starving children in Somalia? Do they think about the impoverished kids in cities who never get a couple of weeks of fresh air? What values are they teaching their children? It's time for higher taxes on those making above $250,000 a year.
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26.
Cheri
Tucson, AZ
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
Is flying their kids to summer camp on private jets the way the rich create jobs with their extended tax breaks? All those who want to raise the debt ceiling at the expense of the poor, elderly, and middle class ought to be proud.
Recommend Recommended by 24 Readers
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25.
Jeanne Elias
Waitsfield, VT
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
Oh Please!!! This is too much! Now tell me that the little Anna is going to work for the Peace Corps some day and help all the unfortunates in some exotic foreign country.
Recommend Recommended by 23 Readers
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36.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Disappointed
France
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
I hope kids are taught at these camps to appreciate nature and the damage that senseless consumption does to it.
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32.
FilmMD
New York
July 25th, 2011
8:04 am
This story is actually really depressing.
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7.
Joseph L Cooke
Washington DC
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
My grandson traveled to his summer camp yesterday in a Cessna 182. His parents are not wealthy, but didn't want their 10 year child fondled or sexually molested by TSA thugs.
Recommend Recommended by 15 Readers [ISN'T THERE A SPECIAL CATEGORY FOR THIS COMMENT?]

60.
nana2roaw
albany, ny
July 25th, 2011
8:08 am
During the Depression, the rich were decent enough or perhaps fearful enough to tone down ostentatious displays of wealth. During World War II, their children fought bravely beside the most impoverished of their fellow countryman. Today's upper class now fights modest tax increases that would stabilize our economy so that they can build $250,000 playhouses for their toddlers and fly their tweens in private jets to rustic summer camps. Like Dick Cheney, their priorities do not include military service. It appears that they no longer consider the rest of the citizens of this country their fellow Americans.
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95.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
bh
alexandria, va
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
poster #3--exactly. These stories DO push our working- and middle-class buttons. That's exactly why we should have more of them. This kind of wealth should not be allowed to be invisible. Then people might know just what kind of a farce it is to have a million-dollar bonus when working people are losing their homes.
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69.
sjd4
Durham, NC
July 25th, 2011
8:10 am
I work in a homeless shelter. I see the ravages of poverty on bodies and souls. I see the effects of the increasing gap between the extremely rich and the extremely poor. The increase in the use of private jets for the convenience of the extremely rich who are seeking summer recreational activities highlights the widening gap between the bulging wealth of the rich and the deprivations of the poor. I wonder if the children of the wealthy wouldn't benefit more from a week of service in the inner city, or Appalachia, or a migrant farm camp.
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68.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
orange kayak
charlotte, nc
July 25th, 2011
8:10 am
The sad part is that these kids will grow up so detached from normal teenage expectations, like having to work and commit for things, that their wealthy parents will have to provide for them for the rest of their lives. I have seen all too often that this level of lavish treatment on kids pretty much ruins them for any chance of a normal life with modest expectations. Best chance for them is to marry well and try to keep it rolling!
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46.
Ingrid S
Maine
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
The averaged per capita income in Maine is just short of $25,000. So that $3700 bargain chartered plane ride is nearly two months of the average Mainers pay.
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33.
CrabbyTom In NC
Wilmington NC
July 25th, 2011
8:04 am
Wow, really? If ever there were an argument for letting the tax cuts on the rich expire, this is it. I suppose the jobs the "job creators" are creating is for private pilots. Meanwhile, it costs taxpayers just as much to safely shepherd one of these rich kid buses as it does to guide a commercial jet filled with the suckers paying the bill for these spoiled brats (their parents included in that characterization).
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29.
le
NYC
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
Shameful -- I'm speechless.
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27.
Andy
Jersey Shore
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
These people need a tax cut!
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22.
MK
CT
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
Well as the tax structure turns more in their favor (thanks to GOP)they have more disposable income to indulge in these things. Nevertheless, I am happy for them as they do not have to drive long distances to meet their children. My eight year old decided that instead of going to a summer camp she would rather spend some time with her grandma and whatever money she will make us save will be used to buy her a computer.
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9.
Jenny Emery
North Granby, CT
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
Must be a slow news day, waiting for the debt impasse to break
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7.
Joseph L Cooke
Washington DC
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
My grandson traveled to his summer camp yesterday in a Cessna 182. His parents are not wealthy, but didn't want their 10 year child fondled or sexually molested by TSA thugs.
Recommend Recommended by 15 Readers
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49.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
vballboy
Highland NY
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
So wealthier tourists represent an economic engine of sorts. Many regions that have lost thier core businesses have tried to turn to tourism as an economic opportunity.

I just wonder if the number of private planes flying kids to summer camp in the northeast has increased over the years? It feeds into the idea that the wealthy (I assume these are millionaires) could pay a little more in taxes until America emerges from the economic downturn.

These folks certainly made out well over the years from the Bush tax cuts, that favored their large returns compared to working folks who got checks for $400 or the like.

Yes, America can also cut spending by some equal percentage across the board for all programs until a target amount is achieved. Please cut the military budget soon. It is one-third of all tax allocation annually.

But households making $250k or more per year could pay a few more percentage points for, say, three years. Could they not do without the proviate jts for kids to go to camp?
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30.
Arthur Shatz
Bayside, NY
July 25th, 2011
7:43 am
What business is it of anyone's if these families can afford to do this. They're not asking anyone else to pay for it, unlike some other elements of our society that always seem to want some one else to pick up the tab.
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41.
American Who Served
Maryland
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
Disgusting, and these greedy people refuse to pay their fair share in taxes! America has indeed changed for the much worse.
Recommend Recommended by 13 Readers
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38.
Mr. E
New England
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
Of course wealthy parents send their kids by plane ... spending a significant amount of time with their children would be out of the question!
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35.
michaelannb
springfield, MA
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
Contempt. Anger. Sick to my stomach. They use THEIR money to ruin the air we all have to breathe. And I suppose these summer camps pay some token service to protecting the environment? or maybe not.
Recommend Recommended by 13 Readers
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31.
Goldman Sacks
Opinion/Editorial
July 25th, 2011
8:04 am
Most of the patents - the Kids too - must be rock solid Republicans who are fighting to maintain the Bush tax breaks and who won't give on this Debt Ceiling Impasse.........flying you Kids to camp in a private jet and they can't manage an increase in their taxes...........give me a frigging break!
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37.
Marian B
Hackensack
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
If they can afford this, they can afford more taxes.
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10.
ToddLC
Los Gatos, CA
July 25th, 2011
7:31 am
Just the type of people Obama wants to tax into submission.
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23.
Jacob handelsman
Houston
July 25th, 2011
7:42 am
That's the beauty of capitalism....If you work hard enough to become well-off, you and your family get to enjoy the fruits of your labor.Of course,if you're a socialist like Obama or a Welfare entitlement junkie like most of the Democratic party and their constituemcy, Life is just too unfair for those who are unable or unwilling to succeed. We'll just take from those who have and give it to those who don't.
Recommend Recommended by 11 Readers
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66.
RH
Albany, NY
July 25th, 2011
8:09 am
The constant publishing of these articles on the rich, while most Americans suffer in a horrible economy, only reinforces the notion that our elites and the press that waits on them are completely out of touch with the rest of the country. If this article, the recent one last week about the extravagant playhouses for children, and others of their ilk do not inspire us to descend into the streets, I don't know what will. Please NY Times, please save your front page for stories about the reality of 95% of this country - living on an average income of $35,000 per year, like my own family of four.
Recommend Recommended by 10 Readers
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62.
Both Ways
nj
July 25th, 2011
8:09 am
I did not read the article. The headline alone was enough. One day, maybe, this country will wake up. The disparity in wealth will come home to roost. If the poor and middle class realized that it is myth that they have any chance of obtaining this kind of wealth, then we may get polices that reduce the disparity. But then again, maybe pigs and not just rich kids will fly!
Recommend Recommended by 10 Readers
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50.
The knob
South Acworth, nh
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
I for one am very, very glad this poor child's family won't have to pay more taxes so my family can get the medicare benefits they need.
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40.
Paladin
San Francisco
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
So this is how the wealthy engage in job creation these days: mumsey and daddy sending Biff and Boopsie off to summer camp by private jet. How reassuringly republican...
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34.
The Republicans say no to higher taxes.
New York
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
Who is kidding who. The Republicans refuse to raise taxes while the rich spend foolishly.
Recommend Recommended by 9 Readers
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58.
Paul Gebhard
saratoga springs, NY
July 25th, 2011
8:08 am
And taxes don't need to be raised on the richest Americans? ....Give me a break!
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34.
The Republicans say no to higher taxes.
New York
July 25th, 2011
8:05 am
Who is kidding who. The Republicans refuse to raise taxes while the rich spend foolishly.
Recommend Recommended by 9 Readers
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78.
Rich Carrell
Medford, NJ
July 25th, 2011
8:16 am
Hey, it's America. People can do what they want with their money. The problem lies with how they have accumulated the money. Was it at the expense of other people's jobs? Was it the result of tax breaks or subsides for their company? Maybe they should show this story to FOX and see if they repeat it. Not a chance.
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75.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Paul Kramer
Poconos
July 25th, 2011
8:15 am
Trips for vacations and to camp (vacation without parents) used to be done by car; i.e., without jets or ipods. We kids got a sense of geography, what made states different, heard accents and generally made our own associations The radio played pop rock (Summer in the City), country (Ode to Billy Joe), gospel (Lean On Me), bluegrass (Gentle on My Mind), soul (Just My Imagination), folk (Turn, Turn, Turn) and regional hits. It might be a small world nowadays but such overlooks an authentic world that now lies unnoticed.
Recommend Recommended by 8 Readers
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57.
Claire
Chevy Chase MD
July 25th, 2011
8:08 am
Let's make sure we continue giving tax breaks to these folks. They are so deserving and needy.
Recommend Recommended by 8 Readers
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72.
nancynancy
United States
July 25th, 2011
8:10 am
Today, the country crumbles around us with the economy, environment, and health and educational systems in tatters. When the rich fly their kids to camp on private jets, we hope they will be haunted by the headless ghost of Marie Antoniette who pranced about her dairy farm oblivious to the starving French people. "Let them eat cake."
Recommend Recommended by 7 Readers
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73.
Fca
Atl
July 25th, 2011
8:12 am
In Lawrenceville GA there is a facility that provides services for adult mentally disabled that is struggling to provide necessary services. Where is the magic?
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54.
Sam
New York
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
Well, I'm glad to see that those Bush tax cuts are stimulating the economy.
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39.
Matthew
Washington, DC
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
Usually I laugh when someone proclaims the NYT has a liberal bias outside of the opinion pages. There is, however, no actual news in this featured article other than "the rich suck".
Recommend Recommended by 7 Readers
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90.
BLM
Niagara Falls
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
No doubt the ride was deductable.
Recommend Recommended by 6 Readers
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88.
Ed
Cleveland
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Private summer camp jets and $50,000 playhouses. These are the people that the Republicans say can't afford to pay more in taxes? The politics of running this country are really screwed up. The Democrats have lost their way. The Republicans are on a crusade to protect the rich. And the Tea Party members are just plain crazy. Where are the voices talking about how those of us who can should be willing to pay a little more to help those who can't, and to see to it that basic piblic services in this great country are fully funded? Stinginess and greed rule the day.
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87.
R.F.
Shelburne Falls, MA
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Last week there was your article about the playhouses of the children of the obscenely rich. Now this! Did it ever occur to these people that they could contribute tens of thousands of dollars to a worthwhile charity and still fly their spoiled kids first class to summer camp? I can only hope that the NY Times' motive behind these two articles is to cast some shame on the uber rich.
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55.
Harry
Madison, WI
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
It's this kind of thing that makes me think that the wealthy in this country could stand to pay higher taxes.
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45.
innermostinn
Vineyard Haven,MA
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
& so many kids cannot even afford camp! This is such a telling photo of what is wrong in our country today.
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94.
Sandy
Pennsylvania
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Please don't make these people suffer by raising their taxes. Just imagine the sacrifices they'd have to make. It would be inhumane.
Recommend Recommended by 5 Readers
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91.
Dennis Ferguson
SC
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Why waste a lot of money on infrastructure when you can just take a private jet to anywhere you want to go? This is what it has come to. If gerrymandering is not dealt with, this country is going to become just another banana republic.
Recommend Recommended by 5 Readers
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80.
TWVS
Mpls, MN
July 25th, 2011
8:16 am
Vomit. Maybe they could take a detour and do some community service in Afghanistan, Libya or Iraq instead.
Recommend Recommended by 5 Readers
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86.
John Cane
Burlington, Vermont
July 25th, 2011
8:26 am
Just another example of the wide divide between the wealthy few and the rest of America. I wonder how many of these jets provide tax write offs for their owners as we wait to see how the debt crisis is settled?
Recommend Recommended by 5 Readers
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71.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
RC
Pompano Beach FL
July 25th, 2011
8:10 am
This article, listed on the front page, with a comment board immediately open, is meant for the sole purpose of generating ire and contempt.

No doubt that it will succeed in doing so.

If someone can afford a private jet... so be it. And I can admit, that whatever contempt and perhaps envy that I may feel, is mostly attributable to sour grapes.
Recommend Recommended by 5 Readers
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65.
Mikesbsc
Charleston, SC
July 25th, 2011
8:09 am
This shows that the Republicans are right. If taxes were raised on the wealthy, and corporate jets were taxed, then these families would drive their cars and put a lot of private jet pilots out of work. A clear example of "job crushing" tax increases. And think of the inconvenience for these children!
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61.
Analysse
New York, New York
July 25th, 2011
8:09 am
The NYT seems never to tire of its obsession with the lives of our wealthy class. Ok, perhaps you don't have to be a millionaire to snag a $750 ride on a private jet to the exclusive summer camp where your kids are ostensibly learning how to 'slum it'. But you do have to be wealthier than any working or middle class families I know.

Yet even as so many American taxpayers continue to face financial distress; and, on a week when we've just witnessed a terrible terrorist attack in Norway, when our own government is being held hostage to an extremist political agenda, this is what you choose to put front and center online? Shame on you, NYT, what an insult to your readership and your profession.

Of course in the interests of fair and balanced reporting, you really are obligated to now run a story about how families live who can't even afford to send their kids to an average summer camp. But what, go slumming into the middle class? You must be gasping at the thought.
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44.
Roland Berger
St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada
July 25th, 2011
8:07 am
Why using a car when one can fly to anywhere in the world? Driving cars is (was?) for middle class.
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43.
Ned Waller
Atlanta
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
After all has been said about the debt limit crisis (and little has been done) this articles makes it clear that the Republicans' intransigence to eliminating tax subsidies for private jets is really about about protecting family values and children. In these difficult economic times we should be grateful that the US government helps subsidize wealthy families' summer travels.
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42.
KS
NY, NY
July 25th, 2011
8:06 am
America, land of opportunity...

My guess for coming summer camp trends:

- Transport by imperial litter, so kids can imagine they're Cleopatra.

- Now that space flight has been privatized, summer camp in orbit. Not only can the kids look down on everyone else, but they'll burn a few oil fields worth of rocket fuel, and make their parents even richer!
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115.
rqtguru
Silver Spring, MD
July 25th, 2011
8:35 am
Lets give them a tax break for using their private jet to get the kids to camp. We can get the money from cutting VA, and Medicare! Lets do it the GOP (Gold Over People) way!
Recommend Recommended by 4 Readers

NO, WE ARE NOT SOCIALIST, JUST THINK SO WHEN THE CHICKENS COME HOME TO ROOST.

Media self-control, Cenk Uygur

2011-07-23T06:52:00.000-07:00

Yeah right, the elites are not conspiring to keep us dumb with mass media...

Bush left us the Piñata of our times

2011-07-23T06:23:00.000-07:00

OSLO — The Norwegian police on Saturday charged a 32-year-old man, identified by the Norwegian media as Anders Behring Breivik, over the bombing of a government center and a shooting attack on a nearby island that together left at least 91 people dead.

Within minutes from the attack, comments at the NYTimes came into the hundreds. Take a look and see if you can identify the Piñata of our times.

S
Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
11:16 am
We felt shockwaves from the blast even from the outskirts of downtown. We are really shaken and glued to the news, trying to find out more.
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2.
Dave
Pa
July 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
I didn't know there was anybody that angry in Norway.
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3.
JI
Lexington, KY
July 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
It was done by terrorist, definitely. More efforts are needed to win over terrorism even if Bin Laden was killed.
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4.
KJSDem
Virginia
July 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
More crazy people ruining life for the rest of us. Hopefully there were few injuries and no deaths and they catch the animals responsible for this.
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5.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Justin
queens
July 22nd, 2011
11:19 am
Islamic fundamentalism is not an American issue, its a global humanitarian crisis.
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6.
david
tennessee
July 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
It appears that even the less contentious nations are not immune to the scourge that extremism has become in this poor world of ours.
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7.
Jeff
L.A.
July 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
The biggest danger in the wider blast area is damage to eyesight from flying glass. I hope this is not a repeat of the American embassy blast in Kenya where so many innocents lost their vision.
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8.
John Bergene
Sandefjord-Norway
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
Norway lives in a bubble with their own thoughts. Like when we were put on the terror list for possible attacks. The goverment didn't care. Each year the Police & military sections get less, and less money. Figured we never need them. This was just a time question before it would happend >.> im doing a golfclap for my own country. The blow up was sad, and its sad that people got hurt. But the golfclap is for the goverment and their way of thinking.
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9.
Allan Fineberg
Fair Lawn, NJ
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
A dastardly act. Norway is a beautiful, peace-loving country with a civilized people. This is disgusting.
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10.
uofcenglish
wilmette
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
Let me guess? We all know who is behind this-- Muslim extremists. They have benefitted from the liberal policies of countries like Norway, but now that some stops are being put in place their is a strong reaction. The forces of barbarism are at the gate, who is truly at watch. The politicians and bankers are too buy trying to shore up their crumbling economic systems.
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11.
geoff
SF bay area California
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
The Aftenposten, Oslo's main newspaper, says the explosion seems to have been directed at the Oil and Energy Ministry, OED.
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12.
Dr. R.D.B. Laime
Albuquerque, NM
July 22nd, 2011
11:21 am
Writer Goodman needs to tell us 3:30 am or pm. If the USA would only go along with the rest of the world and use GMT(Zulu time)it would be grand. 3:30 a.m.---not too much of a problem(oh a problem), yet 1530(3:30 p.m.) would be challenging. Small note? Heck no...we complain about a lot of things about the world, and we (the USA)are the backward bunch(oh yes GMT/zulu is viewed as military time). And we still call Native Americans Indians because Columbus made a goof. Cheers.
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13.
DaveD
Wisconsin
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 am
Likely the first blowback from the Bin Laden murder.
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14.
Tim Kane
Mesa, Arizona
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 am
Looks like the shock doctrine has come to the most successful socialist state in the world. Norway, expect all of your state institutions to be systematically destroyed by opportunist, and for you social welfare to be assaulted by the same. You are far too successful, have far too much oil and far to small to be allowed to continue in your current capacity.

I weep for you.
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15.
WR
Seattle
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 am
For a country like Norway, this is earthshaking. Would be for anyone, but we should extend every possible courtesy and outreach to the government and the people of Norway at this time.
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16.
rlk
chappaqua, ny
July 22nd, 2011
11:35 am
Of course the terrorists would strike the least aggressive country.

They're just a bunch of coward murderers who strike at innocent civilians.
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17.
Kara
NJ
July 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
Lots of good thoughts and prayers to Norway.
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18.
Mike Strike
Boston
July 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
What an outrage.

Norway has always been very receptive to refugees and dispossessed peoples from other regions of the world and contributes massively in aid to countries around the world in need.

Norway should not be deterred from continuing its exemplary humanitarian role in the world by this insanity.
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19.
XFXDOOM2
Stockholm, Sweden
July 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
I'm very interested in who will claim responsibility for this apparent terrorist attack.

Gaddafi? The Taliban? Al-Qaeda?

Let's follow this story very closely.
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20.
MMR
Chicago
July 22nd, 2011
11:37 am
Sending good thoughts to our friends in Oslo and to all Oslo residents.
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21.
ACW
New Jersey
July 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
Do we know it was a bomb and not, e.g., a gas leak? Has anyone claimed responsibility for it? I don't see anything in the article as of this iteration; I'm sure an update is coming. #3 and #4, don't jump to conclusions. One of the cartoonists who got into trouble for drawing a cartoon lampooning Mohammed was Swedish, but Sweden isn't Norway, so if this is a terrorist act, it's mis-aimed. Meanwhile, whatever the cause, my condolences to #1 and his countrymen for their anxiety, whatever the cause.
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22.
Richard Modigliani
Marin County, Ca
July 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
It is probably some radical Norwegian Lutheran sect, no wait, I bet it is some atheist comic book fans. Whoever it really is, I bet we collectively ignore their religious background out of political correctness. And the longer we refuse to acknowledge that 99% of these bombings originate out of one particular religion, the larger the European right will grow as a backlash to these types of terrorist attacks.
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23.
tubaornot
oslo
July 22nd, 2011
11:38 am
It is now confirmed it is a bomb explotion, and at least 2 are confirmed dead, and 8 are injured, but unkonfirmed news is that several more dead are spottet and several more injured are spottet to.
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24.
Harveydad
Melbourne Florida
July 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
If Norway were like the United States, they would invade some country and kill/destroy the leader of that country as some kind of retaliation. I hope the persons or country responsible are not thought to have WMDs. I also hope Norway does not ask Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld for advice.
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25.
rico
brooklyn
July 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
Seems like it could be environmental terrorism.
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Padman
Boston
July 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
Even though it is too early to say who is responsible for this attack it is most probably al-Qaeda. Officials in Norway on Thursday, July 8, said they have arrested three men with ties to al-Qaeda suspected of "preparing terror activities". Al-qaeda is active even in a peaceful country like Norway. No place is immune.
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28.
danstrayer
bonners ferry, ID
July 22nd, 2011
11:40 am
Referring to # 10 above: That's right, we do know. Just like Sweden, and England, and a host of other western nations, we know what happens when these people are allowed in, but apparently we all have to learn it the hard way. Chalk up another victory for Political Correctness.
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29.
Norwegian girl.
Oslo, Norway.
July 22nd, 2011
11:40 am
There are unfortunately several dead people, and many who are hurt. :( A terrible day for Norway.

The police had confirmed that the explosion is caused by a bomb, and have arrested 3 persons, and have surrounded a car at Gardermoen airport as we speak. :(
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30.
Fiona
NY
July 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
In the lah-lah world people are admonished against "profiling" and "stereotyping". In the real world every explosion is immediately suspected to be the work of Islamist terrorists. And almost every time it turns out to be true. Norway is in the forefront of supporting Palestinians and pushing for boycotts against Israel, thinking that it would buy her safety. Wake up and smell the putrid scent of burning buildings, Oslo! Appeasement of terrorists never works and only makes them bolder.
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31.
decker
WA
July 22nd, 2011
11:47 am
The time to do as Denmark has done hass come, their immigration policies are finally strict, and the open-doors of Sweden and Norway that have brought them both nothing but trouble must be ended.

Close the doors.

Only those of actual Nordic and Germanic heritage belong as citizens in Scandinavia.
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32.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
BR
Times Square
July 22nd, 2011
11:54 am
The Nordic sensibility seems to be that issues like free speech and religious fundamentalism is not a conflict, but something that can be downplayed and will fade away on its own. Sorry: it's not fading away.

Religious fundamentalism needs to be confronted directly, it does not back down. It in fact feeds off of ambivalent or conciliatory attitudes: "see? they are weak, they will bend to our will."

Make no mistake, the defining conflict of the 21st Century is between religious fundamentalism and societies that respect and cherish civil liberties.

Notice I didn't say the conflict was between Islam and the West.

To frame the conflict as between Islam and the West is a degenerate trollish way to understand the conflict we are facing in today's world. As if the Muslim world can't appreciate civil liberties. As if the West doesn't have its own homegrown problems with religious fundamentalism.

Civil liberties or religious fundamentalism. Choose your side. Because there is no ability to remain neutral in this conflict, as this bombing has just shown.
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33.
Sven
SKI near Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
11:54 am
Now, two hours after the explosion 2 peoples are confirmed dead and the police confirms it is a bomb attack.
Windows were blown out at least half a mile away from the place (ten street blocks New York style).
A police press conference has been announced for now, but has not yet started.
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34.
Mauren
Holden, MA
July 22nd, 2011
11:55 am
What a tragedy! Norway is not a nation one normally associates with such acts.

It's truly time for us to reevaluate global policies of large states and what we do to stop and punish such savagery.

For instance, must US really work with tainted nations such Pakistan and Saudi Arabia? Should China continue to send nuclear reactors and fissile material to Pakistan? What is the role of Western powers in Afghanistan?
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35.
K.A. Berg
Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
11:55 am
"Each year the Police & military sections get less, and less money. "
from Norway central bureu of statistics, in million NOK:
Money to the police
2005-2010
8 897 9 502 10 218 10 985 11 766 12 766
Stop your golf clapping
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36.
Katie
Portland, Oregon
July 22nd, 2011
11:56 am
I wish I could take a peek into the Muslim extremist's mind. What are they hoping to accomplish? Do they think that the death of innocent people will make the rest of us embrace Muhammad? Do they think that explosions will encourage people to follow Islam's archaic and barbaric rules? Do they think that the rest of the world will fall over and bow to their religion because of explosions? It will never happen.

What is pathetic is that Norway was probably targeted because they printed cartoons of Muhammad. Do the Muslim extremists not get that it is pathetic that they were angry about a cartoon in the first place? Do they not get that this type of violence only sets them back another century in the eyes of the world and hardens people's hearts against innocent Muslims and their beliefs? Can't they see that their countries are tragically unsuccessful and uneducated and the way they are living now will only keep them stuck in the pre-middle ages?

Muslim extremists do not think like normal people. We can never, ever forget that. And we should never change our lives, our beliefs, in order to cater to these monsters in any way. "Politically Correct" behavior that does not acknowledge the truth of this situation, that does not acknowledge that this fundamentalist belief system is not compatible with freedom and liberty, will only harm us in the end.

I'm sorry, Norway. I'm sorry for your country and for your people. We are all wishing you the best and standing beside you. May justice be swift and sure and fair.
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37.
Joanne600
NYC
July 22nd, 2011
11:56 am
The government of Norway has had its collective head in the sand regarding its immigration policy. I weep for the good people of Norway, their government has let them down.
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38.
Laura
Madison, WI
July 22nd, 2011
11:57 am
This is terrible news, and my thoughts go out to all of the injured and their families.

I am confused by the information presented in this article, however. The report cites no leads or suspects. Why have the writer and by extension the Times chosen to include information about Muslim extremist violence without any confirmed connections to the present situation? It doesn't serve your readers well to provide context when we don't yet know if that context is relevant.
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39.
Kim L.
New York City
July 22nd, 2011
11:57 am
O God, I am so disgusted and tired of all the violence in the world. Somehow, the very idea of violence has to change; many people actually are attracted to violence: witness the popularity of violent movies, violent video games, the "glamour" of fighting men. We have to start seeing all this as pathetic, idiotic. Not entertaining, not exciting, just plain stupid. Young people all over the world, especially right now in the extremist lands, have to wake up and start seeing the path of violence as a ridiculous one, not a brave and heroic one. Men and women everywhere must BOYCOTT the use of force, refuse to take up arms, bombs, guns.
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40.
Domingo Tavella
San Francisco
July 22nd, 2011
11:58 am
Islamic fundamentalism was brought about by decades of American and British meddling in the Middle East. Unfortunately, Islamic extremists can't tell the difference between nation in the West, just as GW Bush could not tell the difference between Afghanistan and Iraq, Reagan could not tell the difference between countries in Latin America, American voters can't tell the difference between Indus and Muslims, or just as Sarah Palin does not know that there are countries in Africa. Ignorance and its consequences, it turns out, are not the exclusive privilege of Islamic terrorists.

By believing that terrorism is a universal issue, the civilized nations of northern Europe are making it a universal issue. Norway does not have military bases in Saudi Arabia, does not need Middle Eastern oil, and has no reason to send troops to Afghanistan. The onus for combating Islamic terrorism should have fallen on the UK and the US exclusively, since they are the ones who originated it and the ones who perpetuate it - no amount of terrorism will persuade the US to dismantle its bases in Saudi Arabia, nor the UK and the US to stop meddling in the Middle East.
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41.
Yabaulee
NYC
July 22nd, 2011
11:59 am
@ poster # 5 & 10
You must have some magical crystal ball that tells you who did what& where!!!
Too easy to jump on the ugly Islamophobia bandwagon.
What if turn out some local sicko with deep psychological problems?
Or a foreign agency hit (the mossad) to stir up new anti Muslim bigotry?
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42.
Mr. Helpmann
Brooklyn, NY
July 22nd, 2011
12:00 pm
Bad sportsmanship. A ruthless minority of people seems to have forgotten certain good old-fashioned virtues. They just can’t stand seeing the other fellow win. If these people would just play the game, they’d get a lot more out of life.
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43.
IA
Norway
July 22nd, 2011
12:00 pm
I am proud of my country, our way of life and our society. I don't see how the hard ways has made any type of progress what so ever!

#8 Put a golfsock in it!
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44.
Don
NY
July 22nd, 2011
12:00 pm
This is the kind of horror Sri Lanka went through for 30 years and finally eradicated the menace in 2009. Recently it was learned that Norway secretly funded the Tiger terrorist group while brokering peace with the Sri Lankan government. And now Norway with the EU is pressing the UN to investigate war crimes against the Sri Lankan Government!
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45.
PL
Sweden
July 22nd, 2011
12:01 pm
@ Dr. R.D.B. Laime:
"Indian" is a European word. It was applied from the beginning to boith the East and the West Indies (both European concepts). Columbus's goof has nothing to do with it. If you have to distinguish, what's wrong with "red Indian"? (something bad about red but not black or white? c'mon). As for "native American", what country are the rest of us who were born in America natives of? Not to mention that "America" comes from the name of a dead white male.
As for "military/Zulu" time, why not go further: life would be more rational if we all just had numbers instead of names. Easier for our masters to keep track of us that way.
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46.
WillT26
Durham, NC
July 22nd, 2011
12:01 pm
Perhaps indiscriminately invading countries is not the answer to the world's terrorism issues.
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47.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Henrik Eriksson
Uppsala, Sweden
July 22nd, 2011
12:01 pm
This is not anything you'd ever expect. Scandinavia has never experienced such a terrorist attack in modern times. According to Norwegian media there are at least 2 people who are confirmed dead. How horrible, I feel chocked, sad and angry at the same time.
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48.
Lars Welle
Norway
July 22nd, 2011
12:02 pm
The explosion in government offices, is caused by a bomb, police said.
It is speculated that there may be a car bomb, but can not be confirmed yet.
Nine people are still injured and two killed.
The bomb has caused major material damage in several quarters.

Norway's prime minister was not in office when the bomb went off, and is now in safety.
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49.
Avinash
College Station
July 22nd, 2011
12:02 pm
This is sad and sickening. What does anyone get out of killing random innocent people?

Stand strong Norway. We are all with you!
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50.
WillT26
Durham, NC
July 22nd, 2011
12:02 pm
I feel very bad for Norway and send my best wishes to all of its people and hope that the number of dead/injured does not increase.

I am also happy that Norway, unlike a different country, will not invade two nations and kill millions of innocent civilians in an orgy of violence and revenge.
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West Sider
NYC
July 22nd, 2011
12:56 pm
And 3 days later a Government building blows up in Norway?

Norway backs Palestinian path to UN statehood vote
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND REUTERS

18/07/2011
Norwegian FM says it is "perfectly legitimate" for Palestinians to take case to UN; Syria officially recognizes Palestinian state, SANA reports.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=229906
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57.
vijay
NJ, USA
July 22nd, 2011
12:58 pm
My God, I hope it's not some crazed Buddhist terrorist again!
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58.
sp
Sacramento CA
July 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
People need to understand an Islamic crusade is underway, why are these people tolerated at all. The resounding silence from the Muslim community says more than enough.
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59.
Trumpit
L.A.
July 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
I believe it is God's wrath toward people who persist in hunting intelligent whales in their ocean habitat. The Japanese were hit with an earthquake and tsunami and now the Norwegians are getting a taste of their own medicine. STOP all hunting of whales now! Don't mess with Mother Nature or Mother Superior! Humans must stop playing God with the environment and her creatures. We are shooting ourselves in our collective foot for sure.

Bob Barker is a legend and a hero in the global efforts to stop whaling in the 21st century. He put up millions of dollars of his own money to stop the senseless slaughter of whales. God bless Bob Barker!
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60.
feelin' adrift
Canada
July 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
Thoughts and prayers to the people of Norway who are suffering.

Until more pressure is brought to bear on Israel for its oppressive, imperialist policies, we will unfortunately experience more acts of violence such as what the Norwegian people experienced today.
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61.
RJ MacReady
sf
July 22nd, 2011
1:00 pm
Norway is "such a neutral country"? I guess that the Norwegian educational system is as deficient as ours when it comes to teaching history and geography. After 5 years of Nazi occupation in WW2, Norway became a founding member of NATO in 1949.
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62.
Ken
Norway
July 22nd, 2011
1:01 pm
There's been two confirmed deaths so far, with several injuries.
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63.
CJ Laity
Chicago
July 22nd, 2011
1:01 pm
A few weeks ago Ghaddafi promised to attack Europee in retalitation to what's being done to his country and Hilary Clinton shrugged and told him to step down instead of making threats. What makes us think we can jump into another country's civil war and start arming rebels and bombing the government and that there aren't going to be any consequences.
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64.
andre
up in the hills of Mount Tamalpais
July 22nd, 2011
1:01 pm
I live in California, and on days like this I'm glad our unskilled workers come from the Pacific Rim and South America. More importantly, I'm glad that those workers don't arrive here mentally at odds with our culture.
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65.
Pipi
Sweden
July 22nd, 2011
1:02 pm
Decker 31, I presume you are of native American heritage, right?

I understand from a friend in Norway that the media there is largely reporting it's a terrorist act and that maybe as many as three explosions were involved but of course none of these accounts has been conclusively corroborated.
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66.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Okyoman
Norway
July 22nd, 2011
1:03 pm
Let's not rush to conclusions, and above all let's not allow this to paralyze us with fear. This is horrendous, and that it's happening here is quite surreal. For better or for worse things like these can, apparently, happen just about anywhere. This is something very unfamiliar to us, but we are not immune. But brutal force only breeds more brutal force, and this will never get us anywhere. We're shocked, but let us not be overwhelmed. A society infused with fear is not a way to go.
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67.
S.B
Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
1:03 pm
Several buildings in Oslo Cetre is now being evacuated, reports of shooting on an island(Utøya) in the oslo-fjord.
Still can´t believe this has happend...
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68.
Adam
Tallahassee
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
"Norway is such a neutral country?" I think someone needs to contact the national PR department.
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69.
califpoppy
california
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
so apparently,no country is safe from terrorists.
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70.
THOP
SA
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
Lot's of speculation at this point, with no evidence. Islamic terrorists? Environmental terrorists (this was the oil HQ)? Some domestic issue in Norway (think Timothy McVeigh and OK)? Who knows? "Round up the usual suspects!"

It will become clear, and then we end the speculation. Until then....
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71.
K.A. Berg
Oslo, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
From the police press conference:
15 hurt, 2 confirnmed dead,so far, buildings are being secured.
No one is arrested so far.
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72.
BC
Boca Raton, FL
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
Seems as if the Norway government's growing anti-Israel rhetoric and Islamist appeasement hasn't protected the country from terror.
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73.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Paul
California
July 22nd, 2011
1:06 pm
There is a real problem here. One of the world's major cultures has failed, and a billion people have been left behind in the advances of the last several centuries. They have discarded the human potential of half of their people(women) and have lived in states controlled by a reactionary clergy that has kept them in ignorance. Now modern communications have made them see where the rest of the world has gone. They are angry. They are ill equipped to join the modern age and so they lash out and build bombs. I see no easy resolution. It will take generations before they can be competitive in this world. These poor hopeless disadvantaged people, and their anger, will be with us for a long time.
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74.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Emmanuel
New York, NY, USA
July 22nd, 2011
1:22 pm
"Norway is such a countral country...." says a passerby in Oslo. That was true before the Norwegian government caved in to the pressures of US and Nato allies and sent troops and equipments in Afghanistan. Lately Norway has been involved in Nato operations against Al-Qaddafi's libyan regular army. Can the term "neutral" be applied to Norway today? People outside of Europe and North America don't think so. They have seen Danemark and Norway abandon their traditional stance in world affairs and embrace EU and US policies of meddling interventionism in the developing world.

Today in the eyes of many observers only Sweden, Finland and Switzerland deserve to be called "neutral". But the Swedes might lose that definition if they are succesdul on the global arms markets -they are currently trying to sell fighter jets, Saab Gripen, in many parts of the world-. Cowardly terrorists attacks are always wrong and must be condemned. But practionners of foreign policy know how actions taken by nations internationaly sometimes bring retribution by aggrieved parties. We are afraid the Scandinavian governments have been a little naive if they thought there would be no consequences to their involvement in what we call operations to enforce the keeping of "international peace and security", be it under the banner of Nato or any other Western coalition...
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75.
Weird Harold
NM
July 22nd, 2011
1:23 pm
_______________________________
638.
HIGHLIGHT (What's this?)
Bejay
Williamsburg VA
July 23rd, 2011
1:48 am
Now it has been revealed that this was the act of a Norwegian Timothy McVeigh, and not a Muslim.

The enemy is not Islam, or Christianity, or Conservatism, or Liberalism, or Communism, or Libertarianism.

It is Extremism. It is "by any means necessary". It is "never compromise". It is "our way, or death".

Unfortunately, too many people hear "MUSLIM extremist" when they should hear "Muslim EXTREMIST".

Extremism in Defense of Liberty is no Vice? Nothing could be further from the truth. That's no different than saying terrorism in defense of liberty is no vice. Or rape, or murder, or torture in defense of liberty is no vice. Extremists always think they are acting in defense of some noble cause, like liberty.

The dictum ought to be "Extremism even in defense of liberty is still a vice."
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565.
Sondre I.
Stavanger, Norway
July 22nd, 2011
10:38 pm
In the moment of writing, there is no less than 551 comments on this article. I have not read all of them, but I've seen some few trying to push in the direction I will attempt to push myself, and a whole lot going the other way.

It's about the mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik and his connection to Islamic terror organizations. You see, he has absolutely no connection to any Islamic group at all, in fact, he is rumored to be a member of a christian group in Norway. Anders B. Breivik is a nationalist, more of a tea-party kind of guy, who would oppose Islamic terror rather than support it. For a long period of time he has expressed criticism against the media for not criticize Islam enough, and he has made comments that are very much indeed against multiculturalism. He has written lot's of pro-nationalist comments at Document.no and other sites alike.

So to sum up, he was born in Norway, he became a right-extremist. He does in no way give any impressions of being pro-Islamic, and gives more the impression of being a tea-party kind of guy, Norwegian version.

I cannot stress this enough, anyone who still thinks this is the work of an extremist Islamic group, must, with all respect, get rid of the tin-foil hat and have a look at reality.
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RJay
Westwood, CA
July 23rd, 2011
2:09 am
Having scanned most of the comments here, I'm sickened by reading so many chest-beating displays of hatred, xenophobia, ignorance and vengefulness. It's all part of a very destructive and irrational cycle that feeds on itself. And in the end, who pulled the trigger and set the detonator(s) in Norway? A right-wing Christian "Nordic" caucasian, who self-identified as "conservative." The same kind of person who, in America, would brandish firearms outside a presidential event, or who would join a border militia to deliver "justice," or who would crucify a gay person on a Wyoming fence, or who would even shoot an Arizona Democratic senator. How cowardly, and how utterly un-American.
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Ignatious Riley
Chicago, IL
July 22nd, 2011
10:34 pm
So it turns out it wasn't the Muslim boogeyman so many Americans could not wait to blame without a shred of evidence. But instead this act of murder was perpetrated by a very white, very Christian, right wing conservative. Will we see apologies from those blindly casting stones, will they likewise question what goes on in the vicious cold blooded mind of conservative right wing Christians? One commentator said Islamic fundamentalism was a humanitarian issue. In our land of no health care and cruel cuts to the most vulnerable of society in the name of greed, we can see that perhaps it is truly fundamentalism of all colors, especially Christian and its 12 centuries penchant for war, that is the humanitarian crisis. Next time, perhaps you could wipe your frothing mouths and wait for the bodies to rot a little longer before inciting your tired witch hunt.
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grypewater
Canada
July 23rd, 2011
2:09 am
well i hope that all the islamaphobes weighing in on this feel very sheepish and small. I can't believe how many people have tried to hijack this tragedy for a chance to hate on islam and or immigration. Last time I checked it was a western nation that has an army based in almost every single country in the world. And now it comes out that not only was it not jihadists, but a muslim hating fascist christian that was the alleged perpetrator of this atrocity.

it is our man made ideologies that will be the death of us, regardless of the slant. but the people using this to talk about their own hatred and ignorance is beyond shameful.
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Dharma
Singapore
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 pm
So now it looks like it was not some Muslim who did this. In fact, Mr Breivik sounds very much like some of the commentators who have been eager to blame Muslims for the crime.
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danp
Washington DC
July 22nd, 2011
11:15 pm
Now that the suspect has been identified as a right wing extremist, I hope the commenters who rushed to blame Islam will return to post their apologies.
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Harveydad
Melbourne Florida
July 22nd, 2011
11:39 am
If Norway were like the United States, they would invade some country and kill/destroy the leader of that country as some kind of retaliation. I hope the persons or country responsible are not thought to have WMDs. I also hope Norway does not ask Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld for advice.
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WillT26
Durham, NC
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 pm
It wasn't Muslims at all. It was right-wing hatred against liberals. Intolerance knows no nationality, race or religion. Hate knows no nationality, race or religion.

The greatest fear I have is not Islamists- it is right-wing ideology which declares that might is right and that the ends justify any means. It is the don't retreat, reload mentality I see and hear everyday in the US.

I feel so terrible for the good people of Norway. People of good-will must stand together against the forces of right-wing fascism.
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anon
anon
July 23rd, 2011
1:05 am
Horrible, and my thoughts and prayers are with Norway.

But what is also appalling is the immediate assumption that islamists were to blame, and then the paragraphs about islamic terrorism after acknowledging that it was a white, blond, westerner who appears to be responsible.

Are we that racist in the West that we think only dark people, only "Others", want to kill us?

Are we that blind to the violent ideologies and desperation we are breeding within our own societies?

Have we forgotten Oklahoma City?

In America we have left wing ideologues who howl for violent Soviet style revolutions on the internet. We have right wing nut jobs who use violent language towards opponents. We have religious believers who think they speak and act for God. We have a lot of poor, unemployed, and desperate people, lots of guns, and lots of ideology.

When the TSA tightened up, I was taken aside several times for extra random frisking at the airport. People would laugh; why pull aside a blond, Scandinavian-American? What a waste of time!

What blindness. Anyone can be violent.

The enemy is within. This can happen as easily in America as in Norway. And what is most frightening is that we will miss the warnings because we are too busy being scared only of muslim terrorists that we consider "Other".
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Vijay
India
July 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
What Justin (comment #5) says is true: Islamic fundamentalism is not a problem for America alone - it is a problem for the entire world.

However, America has a far greater responsibility in exacerbating this problem, and in *nurturing the growth* of fundamentalism than most Americans know, or are willing to admit. Religious fundamentalism has always existed - but this brand of bombing, violent cross-border Islamic terrorists were created by America. They were created by the CIA in Afghanistan to fight the Russians - they were trained, given weapons and money by the CIA.

America then actively supported governments that nurtured this disease to grow. American oil purchases continue to fund these killer. Billions of dollars of foreign aid continues to pour into Pakistan, long after India has presented the US with irrefutable evidence that the Pakistani establishment is encouraging, planning and carrying out these attacks.

I know America is trying to fix this problem by starting wars in foreign countries. But if the Americans take off their blinders and start earnestly looking for solutions closer to home, I think the rest of the world may be able to heave a collective sigh of relief.
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sp
Sacramento CA
July 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
People need to understand an Islamic crusade is underway, why are these people tolerated at all. The resounding silence from the Muslim community says more than enough.
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Rafael de Acha
Cincinnati, Ohio
July 22nd, 2011
6:26 pm
My wife and I traveled for our work in the 1970's and 1980's and Norway is one of the countries we visited and loved the most. We often tell an (real-life) anecdote about a group of Americans on tour encountering a dignified older gentleman outside the Royal Palace and asking him who he was. He answered "I work there" pointing to the building in the background. It was the King himself. No bodyguards. That is but one memory of Norway, one of the loveliest countries on earth peopled by some of the nicest, most honest, most hard-working people we ever encountered. That a horror such as today's could be visited on that country is heartbreaking. Out thoughts and prayers go out to the wonderful Norwegian people.
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english44
Vermont
July 22nd, 2011
5:36 pm
Many are laying the blame at the feet of religious fundamentalism. Perhaps that is a short-sighted and convenient explanation. It destroys the equation underlying revenge and impedes understanding, ensuring the continuation of confrontational policies.

We Americans never asked nor allowed anyone to ask, why 9/11? The answer for we Americans is always, always to demonize an enemy and by that process exonerate ourselves. Just as we need the illusion of heroes, so, too, the illusion of absolute evil. What, then, with that mentality, is our responsibility beyond vindication through methods and actions as violent or more so as those used against us.

Perhaps religious fundamentalism obscures more than it illumines. How many Muslim children have been killed by NATO (read America) in Afghanistan and Iraq? How many innocents are collateral damage to us and loved ones to others? Do our actions call out fundamental human passions for justice and revenge?

Is their an equation? Perhaps an eye for an eye? Were Nagasaki and Dresden strategic bombings or revengeful passion? It is important how one frames language. Some explanations close down understanding and lead to violence...and so do not.
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Dave
Pa
July 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
I didn't know there was anybody that angry in Norway.
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Angel
New York, NY
July 22nd, 2011
11:22 pm
More than anything else, these comments reveal how much rampant prejudice there is against Islam and its practitioners in the United States. It is shameful.
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Adauto Araujo
Sao Paulo, Brazil
July 22nd, 2011
9:16 pm
I wonder, if it is confirmed that this attack was perpetrated by a radical right winger, all the hatemongers that were calling for war on Muslims will be defending in the same way an attack on right wing groups. After all right wing extremism is becoming a strong second in the causes of terrorist attacks.
What people don't seem to realize is that radical Islam is also a form of right wing ideology: hatred of foreigners, religious fundamentalism, centralized powers... aren't these things common to both groups?
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Tim
Castle Rock, CO
July 22nd, 2011
5:24 pm
Let's hold off conclusions about who did this until either the police determine the perpetrators or somone legitimately claims responsibility.
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Joanne600
NYC
July 22nd, 2011
11:56 am
The government of Norway has had its collective head in the sand regarding its immigration policy. I weep for the good people of Norway, their government has let them down.
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melissa
New York
July 22nd, 2011
9:10 pm
My prayers and thoughts are with Norwegians everywhere! I am humbled by the many posts from Norwegians demonstrating an admirable calm and willingness to suspend judgment and blame in the face of this shake up. We all stand to learn something from the dignity, patience, and humaneness of their response. Please know that I stand in solidarity with you!
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_______________________________________

Good thing we've got Christian fundamentalism and Tea Party alternatives when Islam cannot be blamed. Wait, I did not specify which Bush, and in what capacity, turned Islam into the Piñata of our times, since we surely recall the collective reaction after the Oklahoma bombing. That Bush you're are thinking about must have made Islam into the western world's Piñata.

Either Marx or War Ends the Crisis

2011-07-15T07:46:00.001-07:00

THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN, the social arbitrageur who keeps reinventing the obvious, usually from the perspective of the elite, has authored a piece, The Start-Up of You.

Friedman uses as examples entrepreneurs who have been successful at building social networks, in financial terms for themselves and otherwise.
This is not your parents’ job market. Workers need to be able to invent, adapt and reinvent their jobs every day.

The NYTimes readership doesn't buy it and sees clear through Friedman's pacifying scheme.

C Wolfe
Bloomington, IN

It seems to me that what we're seeing is a change in how we determine value, and not in a good way. People enjoy using Facebook, but if it ceased to exist tomorrow, so what? It isn't as if people would starve, or we'd suddenly lack water or fuel or clothes to wear or clean air to breathe. People wouldn't stop sharing their experiences with each other, they'd just find another way to do it. And relatively few people would even be out of work. The economic value of Facebook is pure illusion. Ditto Twitter; the people who use it would miss it, but its existence doesn't solve the real problems confronting us, nor would its disappearance create new problems.

The supposed value of social networking companies, or internet companies that serve as mere conduits for what others create, is precisely what's wrong with the economy. They're valued in absurd disproportion to what they actually contribute to society. It's all perception and no substance. I'd feel much better if you told me that the fastest growing companies were developing new energy sources. We need to think strategically for the long term, and not simply react like infatuated teenagers to the sensation of the moment.
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A. B.
Boston

Day in and day out, this gentleman shows that he has the strange “let them eat cake” syndrome that is so common in the “intellectual” world. There are only so many techie wiz-kids. The rest of the common folks need to eat too. They need to build a stable life, raise children, take care of the elderly, and finally retire. They should be able to do that without having to “invent” themselves every day. Work should not consume every living minute.

All of the fanatical review by the quarter, the rule of the pimply faced boss who happened to think about what will attract the attention of other teenagers, is similar to the fashion world, where gaining of a extra pound will kill a career. Work is not limited to show biz, the runway, nor is it limited to silicon valley social network companies.

We need to eat, live, travel, and be healthy. All of this requires companies that cater to food, clothes, transport, power, housing, medicine. We need to focus how to do these well. We need to bring back manufacturing, we need to focus on better sources of power, we need to be able to balance the quality and cost of healthcare. All of the empty talk about silicon valley and social networking is teenage angst coming from a grown man. He us bring on the adults to solve the problem.
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Nicholas
Westmont, Ill.

The companies starring in this column – Twitter, Groupon, etc – are the froth billowing up around recent advances in electronics, computer science, and communications. While the people and businesses caught up in this froth may have career or life cycles of 3 months, they aren’t representative of people and businesses in society as a whole. Most of us couldn’t survive and raise families and keep our mental health, while struggling to keep the likes of Zynga hopping successfully from fad to fad over our entire working careers – careers which everybody says should get longer and longer.

Most of us acquire a knowledge and skill set, both through education, and over the course of our working lives. It is this knowledge and these skills, along with our personal relationships, which make us valuable. Our commitments to our professions are often life-long, and commitments to companies can be long-term. We make similar commitments to our families and our communities. We are valuable precisely because we aren’t constantly hopping from job to job, and career to career, and relationship to relationship.

Similarly, most companies can’t reinvent themselves from whole cloth every 3 months. There is long-term investment that must be repaid. There is the hard-won familiarity with a market, with a customer base, with an area of technology, that gives a company roots. Not least is a hard-won assemblage of a team of capable, motivated, and innovative employees. Successful companies are characterized by sustained effort, constant if often incremental progress, and long-term commitment to their area of excellence.

I don’t begrudge the Twitters of the world their 15 minutes of fame. But people’s lives, their families, their communities, and their civilization cannot be reinvented every 3 months. Businesses can’t start over every 3 months. We have to learn to commit, think and act long-term, without losing the capacity to innovate and renew.
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harry
michigan

Silicon valley is not going to lead this country out of the economic funk we are in today. This article is meaningless in todays climate. Our leaders have sold this country out to the lowest bidder so the elites can get even richer. The real question is will we ever employ people in manufacturing again. Not everyone can be a software designer or engineer. We still need people to build widgets. Tariffs on all imported worthless stuff is my answer.
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Dave
Florida

I'm nearing 50, and have been fortunate enough to have had some of the professional risks I've taken over the years work out well to the positive side of the ledger. But to really insist that this way of life constitutes the minimum bar for personal success requires glossing over a few other realities of life: (a) not having kids - my path toward success didn't make room for them, and in retrospect, I was incredibly fortunate that my second wife brought three teenage kids into my life who accepted me with love and as an additional guidepost in their lives, (b) celebrating creativity and real-time adaptability over all else is really just Darwinism on steroids, and (c) this path is the surest possible way forward toward a world in which income inequality becomes even more pronounced and entrenched. Having spent a few years in Silicon Valley a long time ago, I thoroughly understand this mindset. For the best and the brightest, it must be ever thus. For the rest of the population, including some of my nieces and nephews, I genuinely fear for the social repercussions yet to come.
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Marie Burns
Fort Myers, Florida

There is a vast chasm between someone "who can invent, adapt and reinvent their jobs every day" and an average college grad who applies for a job with some fear of the complex world s/he is about to enter. What you are asking young people to do strikes me as too much, too soon. I'll warrant that there are a few who already have the drive & chutzpah to reinvent themselves daily to accommodate their demanding masters -- or to strike out on their own -- but I don't think we want or need a society that demands so much of young people just getting their bearings.

What you posit and propose are actually the best evidence I've seen for a need to institute a two-year public service requirement for young people. If the nature of the public service they performed was varied across jobs and incorporated the teaching of useful skill sets, I expect some of the "graduates" of such public service programs would be ready for bigger things.

It is really too much to ask young grads to jump from a frying pan in which they were required -- for 16 of the 21 years of their lives -- to do what the teacher/professor said, into a frying pan in which they are expected to constantly think outside the box. I say, good luck to the timid -- they might not inherit the earth, but if they have done what is required of them during their school years, they deserve a piece of it.

The Constant Weader at www.RealityChex.com
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Steve R.
NY, NY

Technology has simply fulfilled it's promise of relieving the human being from so many dirty, dehumanizing, mindless, physically debilitating tasks. What is outmoded is our system of distributing resources/wealth. We must rethink the concept that in order to live a comfortable life every adult must work 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, every year, until age 70. If we have reached a point where it only requires 20 hours a week to produce all that society needs, then that has to become the standard for a weekly wage that pays the rent/mortgage/food/utility bills. If making room in the workforce for the next generation requires this generation to retire at 60, then beginning at 60 people have to have the resources to retire. There are more than enough resources to sustain the world's population in comfort and dignity; we just need a better system than the 40 hour a week, work til you die system of distribution.
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andrew
nyc

Tom, this is lunacy. I'm a college professor at a college in the top 1% of schools world-wide and I can tell you that few of OUR graduates are capable of what you're asking for. C'mon. Be serious. Out of 350,000,000 Americans, there are probably 100,000 tops with those kind of skills and abilities, intelligence and drive. So what about the other 99% of the workforce? Unemployment at 85%? We'll have a social and political revolution in this country long before it gets to that. I don't disagree that this is helpful for a top few percent to make the best of their opportunities, but without some basic solutions for the community college educated and even high school educated, lacking capital or contacts in high places, our country will simply disintegrate into anarchy.
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Scott
Seattle

I'm not sure where you've been for the last ten years but this is the reality for just about everyone under 40 in most sectors. Corportations, flush with a huge increase in talent with women joining the workforce in numbers equal to men, increased H1B visas and totally unlimited offshoring has made labor less and less valuable.

Coupled with this huge supply is the utter destruction of labor rights in America. Overtime is all but dead, unions are rare and increasingly powerless, and the business community has abandoned any obligations to train or retrain employees who they now view as easily replacable commodities.

As a 37 year old on his seventh career in the technology sector, I can tell you that the path is daunting and most people simply aren't up for it. I decided to forgo having children since our careers wouldn't allow us to spend the time necessary to raise them and expected bouts of unemployment are simply expected in the new predator economy.

Some social engineering is the only solution I can see to the problem. Labor needs to make itself scarce to industry and the federal government is the only agency powerful enough to make it happen.

The current unlimited workweek has to go. In a time where real unemployment is at nearly 20%, it's time to roll back standard hours to 32 per week and require mandatory overtime for everyone short of a C-level executive. Our enormous productivity hasn't led to a higer standard of living and that should awaken the ire of our citizens and our government.

The promise of technology bringing freedom and leisure to our lives has been replaced with a 24 hour leash and demands on our time that were unimaginable 20 years ago.

Sure, some people will rise to the challenge presented to the modern economy but they will surely find themselves thrown to the wolves by the time they're 50 years old and no longer considered attractive to companies looking for nothing less than slaves that they don't have to car for.
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Nancy
Corinth, KY

Hang on, I'm listening -

Facebook is now valued near $100 billion, Twitter at $8 billion, Groupon at $30 billion, Zynga at $20 billion and LinkedIn at $8 billion

- so we need more borderline-personality geeks to dream up ways to tap into our narcissism, self-promotion, consumerism, and sucker us into being their 'content providers' and paying for the privilege?

Those valuations are highly suspect and based on some investment banker (hah!!!!)'s opinion of their potential advertising revenue. What are they going to advertise? Each other? ('Zuckerman tries out Google+' - the Times, 2 or 3 days ago)

We have a crackhead economy based on TV ads convincing people that happiness lies in going on to the next must-have 'stuff'. It's driven by greed at the supply end and gullibility on the demand side. And now instead of tangible goods - 3-SUV-garage McMansions filled with color-coordinated housewares plus the obligatory storage unit - there's must-have membership in the next cool 'online community'.

Marx was right, altho he chose the unfortunately obscure locution 'commodity fetishism.' Now we don't even need actual goods, just a phony sense of belonging, while financial manipulators undermine truly productive work and their political puppets do their best to tax it out of existence.

No thanks. I'm going to keep raising food, and hope the indicators look good enough to let me finance a new barn roof and find someone capable of building it.
Nancy
Shady Grove Fatm
Corinth, KY
shadygrovefarm.wordpress.com
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Zeke27
New York

This is just wrong. If you want a speculation driven economy with everyone trying to be the next Bill Gates and jumping around every quarter to maximize profits, we will end up right where we are now. the 1%'ers will be eating $100 kobe beef hamburgers while the rest of us live in compounds for the underutilized.
The markets that you describe are ephemeral, and all in them live in fear of the next google, napster, facebook etc. Like Wall Street, each of these want to grow large enough to maximize profit. If they have to steal our personal data to do so, or enslave us to their business plans, then that's ok. But, they are all selling wispy ephemera with no substance.
Left out of the column are the longer career paths that require a high degree of mastery, such as design, education, construction trades, art, justice, mental health. Do you want an entrepreneur to design your home or represent you in a legal battle? As we devalue the traditional and rewarding careers in the mindless quest for instant gratification and vast wealth, we will all lose whatever quality of life we are meant to enjoy in our limited lifespans.
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Karen Garcia
New Paltz, NY

This column reads like it came straight from the White House's "Winning the Future" propaganda machine. How many times have struggling unemployed people heard the ringing presidential words "we have to out-innovate, out-educate and out-innovate the rest of the world" instead of "Today I am announcing a multibillion jobs program and I will not leave Congress alone until I get it?"

Log on and look up entrepreneurship and you too can achieve the American Dream?This presupposes not only a computer and an internet connection, but enough working capital so that all those upstarts can launch their startups. Banks will not be lending to bright-eyed college grads any time soon -- most have no collateral and most are already carrying thousands in student debt. Too risky. Besides, all those billions of dollars in quantitative easing released by the Fed to stimulate the economy are either being hoarded, lended bank-to-bank at zero interest, or invested overseas where cheap labor for pennies an hour is there for the taking.

And, if you do happen to land an actual job, be prepared to work till you drop, because there are thousands more where you came from. Get with the program and out-perform a robot and make money for your employer by evolving your skills at the speed of light. Sounds great for the employer, downright dystopian for the employee.

This all reminds me of the Charlie Chaplin character in "Modern Times", working in a factory nonstop and just a cog in the machinery. He finally cracks, flees, revolts and walks into the sunset with Paulette Goddard.

That era is back with a vengeance. But we're told that recovery is just around the corner, and we just have to smile though our hearts are aching.

http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/
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Ike Solem
CA
July 13th, 2011
8:56 am
The trend in Silicon Valley is to outsource labor to sweatshop nations in the name of cutting costs for the purpose of inflating corporate profits and hence, quarterly dividends to shareholders.

This is why Apple's Ipad is not made in Silicon Valley - pure greed on the part of top executives and shareholders and their many hangers-on. The consequences, other than rising unemployment in the U.S.?

"An explosion ripped through the Foxconn Chengdu plant in China, the factory where the Apple iPad 2 is made, killing three workers and injuring 15."

http://www.ibtimes.com/

Now, what can be done? The goal of the politicians and their CEO masters seems to be to convert the U.S. itself to a sweatshop nation, returning working conditions to those that existed around 1900 - a race to the bottom driven by 'free trade' deals and the inexorable logic of 'globalization.'

The actual result is somewhat different, however - as China's domestic markets grow, they no longer need to export so much. As they gain manufacturing skills (freely provided by U.S. corporations), they begin to develop their own R&D centers. For example, a $1 billion solar R&D facility planned for Silicon Valley recently relocated to China - not just for the incentives, but also to be closer to manufacturing lines.

So - the brilliant geniuses gut the U.S. technological innovation system in the name of increased corporate profits, and then wonder why U.S. citizens can no longer afford to fill their pockets by buying consumer goods - and who is to blame? The champions of neoliberal free trade agreements, primarily.

The U.S. has few options now, having gone deep into debt due to steep tax cuts and multi-trillion dollar wars in the Middle East and Central Asia (aimed at seizing control of regional oil & gas production - the same philosophy that inspired Soviet moves in the region, as well as German efforts in the 1940s, right?).

Pathetic.
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eem
Cambridge, MA

Facebook may be valued at $100 billion but it's revenue stands only at $2 billion. Further, Facebook does not turn a profit to speak of and only employs 2000 people world-wide. Good luck with building an economy on that. Facebook is over-valued so that Goldman and Sachs can charge higher fees by selling its stock. That's all there is to it. If we continue to stake our hopes on dotcom bubbles, we are truly doomed.
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dickginnold
San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas, Mexico

Tom, this is not one of your better columns and the Linkedin guy is not a good guru. Because of the hacking connected with accepting Linkedin messages I wont let it into my computer. Pure froth, fed by naive advertisers and populace.

Most of the jobs in the country are still done with dirty hands, e.g., all repair occupations, a growing area, care of the elderly, much of manufacturing, real estate, insurance and teaching at all levels. Government services that keep our roads, cities, sewers, water systems functioning and build new infrastructure. Construction and remodelling.
Working in big box stores can be a good career.

Most kids dont work as teenagers and are at sea when they are let out of the nest at the end of college, or pop back in burdening their parents. You dont start as a callow college grad who can manipulate the digital stuff but probably couldnt fix a faucet or toilet or sticking door.

You start by being mentored at the age of 9 or 10 to correctly run errands and do household jobs, then getting the most menial jobs at age 11 or 12, cut the chauffering to school and games, and then tough summer jobs with physical work, learning what the bottom feels like and what earning a lower wage is. Along with this, hard studying on the courses in high school and then college that will teach lessons of life. Going for the toughest teachers. You cant reinvent an empty, fragile, shell.

If you think the digital revolution, advertising flim flam and soft occupations will save the US, forget it. Our kids dont have the grit and desire because their parents didnt give it to them and we are being beat at every turn by the Mexicans, Asians and other groups that had to struggle. Wages have been stagnant for almost 40 years and are going down in many areas. This will accelerate as not just China, but the other hardworking emerging societies like Brazil, Argentina, Colombia and other Asian, African societies get their industries and confidence.
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Robert W.
San Diego, CA

I have read many of your opinion pieces about what we must do to compete in the job market in this new world of ours, and it seems that you have failed to address a major elephant in the room. Let’s see, we must be updating our skills all the time, gaining new ones, pitching our talents, living like entrepreneurs to maintain middle class jobs, etc. In fact, Fareed Zakaria tells us we must all learn a second language. Any linguist will tell you that fluency in a second language requires at least 10,000 hours of study.

Time to address the elephant in the room: Children are a luxury most Americans can no longer afford. Everyone knows that to have a decent shot at success a child needs two parents to spend a good amount of time with him or her. It’s quite clear from your articles that the amount of time children need is no longer available to the working or middle class American. If we are supposed to work our 10 hour days then go strait to our classes to keep our skills up to date, or develop and pitch our new ideas, or learn Chinese, when are we going to help little Jane and Johnny with their homework? Or talk to them? Or anything else? Can we have dinner with the family when we are doing all the things we are supposed to do to compete in this new world? Hardly. And what are we going to feed our children with when one job ends and we’re spending months designing our new product and pitching it to those 300 V.C.s? I know, our savings. Or rather, their savings. They can eat instead of going to college.

With “Uncertain, rapidly changing conditions,” having a child today means his future will be uncertain and his upbringing will be in a sea of rapidly changing conditions without the stability children need. And if the parents want to bring home the bacon, the children’s lives will have to be devoid of parental involvement. The only solution I see is for the wealthy to breed like rabbits. The wealthy should have all the kids they can. Donald Trump’s kids should have
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lindalipscomb
california

I call the employment problem "the Fourth World Economics Problem".As technology advances, and populations increase, fewer and fewer workers are necessary to perform the basic reproduction of societies, and more and more people need work to get the basics of life. It's like two trains barreling straight for each other!

The work week in the US hasn't changed in decades, but both unemployment and re-deployment to war has become a haphazard way of changing the 35-40 hour work week. The war machine replaces both the birth and expansion of the industries which would spring up from thoughtful allocations of resources, or from consumerism. This patchy approach to a systemic problem has harms those on the short end of the work week, competing globally for ever dwindling numbers of jobs. For those for whom military deployment is their only real hope of a job, the consequences entail both physical and mental burdens for their lifetimes. We see this now all over the Middle East with millions of unemployed young people rioting for the freedom to make a living and the democratic participation that follows.

Can we solve the "Fourth World Economics Problem"? Perhaps. There are really only 3 ways that humans get the stuff needed for survival. The first way is by some kind of gift or inheritance.The second is by force - one takes it. Many world dictators or common thieves come to mind; it is only a question of degree. The third method, by far the most widespread, is through work.

Without work, there is no hope to address the problem. When private industry does not do it, government MUST create jobs. So I propose my 3 point program to save our economy AND our democracy: 1.End the wars. ALL of them. 2.Tax the rich,'cause that's where the money is. 3.Take the money from 1 and 2 and invest it in infrastructure: schools, roads, healthcare, you get the idea! Unemplyment will be over in two years. And we can repay the national debt!
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M. Kraishan
Kuwait

This is amusing! If I am able to re-invent myself every other day and come up with the equivalent of Facebook and Twitter every other year, why would I bother seeking employment? What does adding value every day mean exactly?

Work is only part of the human endeavor. Jobs should cover the spectrum of people’s abilities and circumstances. It should not be a saga of technological adventure and invention and an entrepreneurial undertaking to get a decent salary at the end of the month. The excessive valuations of these Technology companies is only there because of “potential,” and because, I may add, of so much money in the hands of the few who do not know what else to do with it.
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